waiting for PCL response

[BE90flyer]

I want to make sure that PCL reads and responds to the follow people post.

"
Sorry, but PFT is as bad as it gets, so you are being a hypocrite. You had no problem doing it when it benefitted you, but now you have a problem because someone else is looking out for their best interest. I certainly understand the ire the TSA pilots have with go-somewhere-jets, but you have no leg to stand on wrt. this issue!"

and

"PCL has done more damage to this industry than the GJ guys have. This guy has taken the job away from a paid pilot, and offered to PAY the company "X" ammount of money each year to fly that airplane. All so he could move up to another regional that flies Shiny Jets, and pays $18k a year.
But he wants to bash a start up airline, that was non ALPA affliated from the begining, and say that those pilots are bringing down the industry.
PCL is a child, he is a coward. He has no work ethic, he will just pay everyone to get where he wants to be in life. In the mean time, other airlines and 135 operators are now PFT. My kid brother went to go get a job flying a King Air 200. The operator has now began charging guys $250 a flight hour to SIT in the right seat.
This is because guys like PCL has told them, that there are pilots out there in this world who pay to have a job.


I hope I never have to fly on a pinnacle flight when he is the captain.

 

[BE90flyer]

He must be flying

 

[DoinTime]

He must be flying

Why??? because four hours have gone by and he hasn't replied? Get a life.

 

[PCL_128]

Wow, I've got my own thread now!!! Thanks for the honor!

I've responded to these sorts of posts in detail many times in the past, but here's the condensed version: I was new to the industry and didn't know any better. Yep, just as simple as that. When someone new to the industry tours a dozen different flight schools and each is selling its own version of a "bridge program," then you begin to think that it's just the way things are done in the industry. If you don't know anyone that works as a CFI or as a regional pilot, then you have no unbiased observer to tell you the truth about PFT. The first time I even heard the term "PFT" was when I found this website shortly before leaving GIA to come to Pinnacle.

GIA was a mistake that I made because I didn't know any better. The same is true of nearly every pilot that goes to GIA, TAB Express, RAA, or any other PFT or "Bridge" program. Attacking these pilots is not the way to end this problem. Perhaps the PFT haters out there should pool your money together to put an anti-PFT ad in Flying magazine so newbies know better. How about you go to the local flights schools and educate the new pilots about the evils of PFT? Naw, that's too difficult, isn't it? It's much easier to just attack people. Just like everyone that attacks ALPA but refuses to put forth any effort to volunteer themselves.

If the pilots at Freedumb or HoJets didn't know any better then I would certainly cut them slack. That's just not the case, however. ALPA has made a large effort to educate the newbie pilot masses about this airline, and individual TSA pilots have taken their own time to educate pilots in various college aviation programs across the country about this scumbag operation. The truth is that most of the pilots going to HoJets aren't newbies at all. They are furloughed major and regional pilots that knew exactly what they were doing when they stabbed the TSA pilots in the back. Comparing this to 250 hour newbies that PFT is patently absurd.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Dizel8]

I was new to the industry and didn't know any better.

You still are, so maybe sit back a bit and don't start going after every one that doesn't subscribe to your truth.

It's much easier to just attack people.

Pot meet Kettle.

Comparing this to 250 hour newbies that PFT is patently absurd.

You may think so, but the end result is exactly the same.

Your story about how you did not know is suspect at best, after all, you seem quite capable of accessing the internet and one would imagine you did a bit of research before you got into this racket. You seem to be trying deperately to wash the stain of you, almost like you really did know what you got into, but it was PCL_128 first, hence why your lambasting of others and your position in the union seems quite silly. Honestly, the best thing you could do, is to stay away from pointing fingers at others, then maybe there would be less fingers pointing at you.

SJS strikes again.

Do you even consider how dumb that is coming from you?

 

[slickmagneto]

Just for clarification purposes, the PCL carrier code is a charter company, NOT the Airlink airline.

 

[737 Pylt]

I want to make sure that PCL reads and responds to the follow people post.

"
Sorry, but PFT is as bad as it gets, so you are being a hypocrite. You had no problem doing it when it benefitted you, but now you have a problem because someone else is looking out for their best interest. I certainly understand the ire the TSA pilots have with go-somewhere-jets, but you have no leg to stand on wrt. this issue!"

and

"PCL has done more damage to this industry than the GJ guys have. This guy has taken the job away from a paid pilot, and offered to PAY the company "X" ammount of money each year to fly that airplane. All so he could move up to another regional that flies Shiny Jets, and pays $18k a year.
But he wants to bash a start up airline, that was non ALPA affliated from the begining, and say that those pilots are bringing down the industry.
PCL is a child, he is a coward. He has no work ethic, he will just pay everyone to get where he wants to be in life. In the mean time, other airlines and 135 operators are now PFT. My kid brother went to go get a job flying a King Air 200. The operator has now began charging guys $250 a flight hour to SIT in the right seat.
This is because guys like PCL has told them, that there are pilots out there in this world who pay to have a job.


I hope I never have to fly on a pinnacle flight when he is the captain.

Not looking to flame, just an honest question.....How do you feel about the Southwest program then....In a way its pay for training. I did it..Bought the 737 type that is....Does that make me and everyone who did it PFT??
737
Just looking for an answer....If you're going to insult, I won't dignify it with an answer

 

[DoinTime]

Just for clarification purposes, the PCL carrier code is a charter company, NOT the Airlink airline.

Also for clarification PCL (the ALPA identifier) is used for Pinnacle Airlines, not the charter company.

 

[A350]

PCL:

You still running around screaming how what you did was wrong, but it is ok because you know it was wrong and your an ALPA stalwart? GMAFB.

Keep running your mouth about how bad other people are. The people you detest so much are doing just what you were doing. Trying to start, advance, or continue a career in aviation. The furloughed guys/gals that went to Freedom/G0Jets are no different than you. You did the PFT thing, got a leg up, and went to a regional whose specialty is flying old MAINLINE routes. Stabbing other pilots in the back as you say? Pot, I want you to meet Kettle.

You may claim that you want to see the planes at MAINLINE and not at the regional, but your words are HOLLOW. If the jets showed up at PCL, you would be there in your hula skirt dancing a jig. But not to worry, it is all done under the watchful eye of ALPA and all those volunteers who make it possible.

Puke!

A350

 

[whaleroast]

PCL:

You still running around screaming how what you did was wrong, but it is ok because you know it was wrong and your an ALPA stalwart? GMAFB.

Keep running your mouth about how bad other people are. The people you detest so much are doing just what you were doing. Trying to start, advance, or continue a career in aviation. The furloughed guys/gals that went to Freedom/G0Jets are no different than you. You did the PFT thing, got a leg up, and went to a regional whose specialty is flying old MAINLINE routes. Stabbing other pilots in the back as you say? Pot, I want you to meet Kettle.

You may claim that you want to see the planes at MAINLINE and not at the regional, but your words are HOLLOW. If the jets showed up at PCL, you would be there in your hula skirt dancing a jig. But not to worry, it is all done under the watchful eye of ALPA and all those volunteers who make it possible.

Puke!

A350

Game, set, match.
Nice post.

 

[BE90flyer]

Not looking to flame, just an honest question.....How do you feel about the Southwest program then....In a way its pay for training. I did it..Bought the 737 type that is....Does that make me and everyone who did it PFT??
737
Just looking for an answer....If you're going to insult, I won't dignify it with an answer

Is it a requirement? or just highly recommended? Either way its not the same as PFT. I dont think I would do but to each his own.

I just want PCL to keep his opinions to himself because he is in no position to talk down to any other pilot. PCL taking the high road all the time gets real annoying.

 

[Lear70]

GIA was a mistake that I made because I didn't know any better. The same is true of nearly every pilot that goes to GIA, TAB Express, RAA, or any other PFT or "Bridge" program. Attacking these pilots is not the way to end this problem. Perhaps the PFT haters out there should pool your money together to put an anti-PFT ad in Flying magazine so newbies know better. How about you go to the local flights schools and educate the new pilots about the evils of PFT? Naw, that's too difficult, isn't it? It's much easier to just attack people. Just like everyone that attacks ALPA but refuses to put forth any effort to volunteer themselves.

That's what I've been trying to organize people to do for the last several years now, and what I wrote a letter to D.W. in Herndon about as well.

We have to start back at the ROOTS of aviators coming from Private Pilot and up with the education of the pitfalls of PFT. Alone we have no voice. United with the money to advertise those pitfalls, along with the organizational abilities of ALPA to get committees at EVERY AIRLINE to go down to these schools and hold "informational sessions" (I'd do it on my off days once a month, no problem), is how we need to go about this.

If the pilots at Freedumb or HoJets didn't know any better then I would certainly cut them slack. That's just not the case, however. ALPA has made a large effort to educate the newbie pilot masses about this airline, and individual TSA pilots have taken their own time to educate pilots in various college aviation programs across the country about this scumbag operation. The truth is that most of the pilots going to HoJets aren't newbies at all. They are furloughed major and regional pilots that knew exactly what they were doing when they stabbed the TSA pilots in the back.

BINGO!

Folks, just because you don't like PCL doesn't mean he's wrong on everything he posts. Most of his posts are the God's honest truth that those people don't want to hear. I don't agree with all of it, but quite a bit of it is right on target.

Comparing this to 250 hour newbies that PFT is patently absurd.

Arguable, depending on whether the 250 hour PFT pilot knew better which is almost impossible to determine after-the-fact. If he/she DID know better, then the comparison is 100% correct. If they didn't, then it's not. Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 737 Pylt
Not looking to flame, just an honest question.....How do you feel about the Southwest program then....In a way its pay for training. I did it..Bought the 737 type that is....Does that make me and everyone who did it PFT??
737
Just looking for an answer....If you're going to insult, I won't dignify it with an answer

Is it a requirement? or just highly recommended? Either way its not the same as PFT.

*cough* BULLSH*T!

You're paying for training that ALL OTHER CARRIERS PROVIDE YOU as part of your initial training for that airline. Additionally, Southwest does just as many sim sessions as getting the type would be ANYWAY, so I'm still confused why they require it, other than the simple fact: THEY CAN!

If the government hadn't paid for mine, there's no way I'd ever have done it. If the government would have paid for a G-4 type rating instead, that's what I would have gotten, simply because I've always wanted to fly one.

Unfortunately, $14,000 difference...

PFT is PFT is PFT. Until people stop doing it altogether, it'll keep rearing its ugly head.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Lear70-

I think your post is valid, however, there are bigger fish to fry. It is not how pilots get to this career, PFJ/PFT, rather it is what they got when they arrive. Right now it is not much.

Nonetheles, the method for both issues to be resolved is the same. Education and legislation.

 

[pookie]

I just think that it is ironic that individuals would pay for a job. As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. I was also new to aviation but i was smarter and made better decisions than the boneheads that pft.

Just for the record, i think what swa does with the type rating is also wrong.

 

[stupidwork]

okay i went to a big university (you can guess which one if you want to) but i paid for private through cfii with some help of my parents. I am now flight instructing to build my time.
My question is what is wrong with that? so an airline will hire me with 750 hours...so whats the big deal. I am not saying that i would go work for an airline and get paid less than i am now or pay them to sit in the right seat. i had to pay for the training to get where im at.
i guess my point or question rather is would you please clarify what you all mean by PFT?? do you mean pay for traing or pay for time??

 

[Lear70]

PFT is not getting your basic ratings that ALL airlines require anyway for employment.

PFT is when YOU pay THE COMPANY YOU WANT TO WORK FOR to train you ON A SPECIFIC AIRCRAFT that, if no one paid for training, the company would then HAVE TO PAY THAT COST THEMSELVES AS A NORMAL BUSINESS EXPENSE.

These companies that prey on young pilots who want to "fast-track" their career are to blame.

ALPA who stands by and does nothing to discourage this practice isn't helping anything.

You're not doing anything wrong Stupid, You're doing it the right way, as are our military folks, banner towers, check haulers, etc.

Good decision-making skills show up in people who have good backgrounds. I fly with low-time PFT kids all the time who show me they are still learning the basics of situational awareness and decision-making and they SHOULDN'T be doing that in a Part 121 jet aircraft.

Keep doing what you're doing, you'll feel better about yourself in the end.