VMC or Stall in a light twin.

[nosehair]

Which would you define as worse!. We had a little hanger flying the other day with some instructors. There was a split down the middle on both.

I think you mean rollover from Vmc with one eng. inop. vs. stalling. Stalling with one engine? Then you must be in a Seminole because a Baron will lose heading control before stall. If it stalls before going Vmc, then recovery is lower nose and gain speed, but not to dive. If you're in a Seminole, you lose Heading control about the same time as inducing the stall, so you have both going on at the same time. The bottom line is, no matter what kind of airplane, it is better to stall than lose heading and bank control and roll over upside down so that the impact is directly into your face. You can keep the wings level and you have abetter chance of getting the nose up into a normal landing attitude before impact from a stall. Even if you impact nose down into the ground, there is a better chance than upside down with the airplane on top of you.

But...nobody here really knows what you are asking. Your question does not have enough specific information describing the scenario.

 

[flyingnome]

What happens with VMC and stalling varrys per airplane. I did my multi training in the seminole and the part that should worry you is at the point on the curve when the stall speed meets VMC. Normally the seminole will stall generally before it his VMC by design, as altitude increases on a naturally aspirated engine stall speed remains the same but VMC will increase. So there will be a point in which you will roll and stall at the same time as Nosehair above described, and that is the most dangerous place you should try and avoid.

Why? Because now you have stalled the airplane and have no control at the same time...
Just learn the procedures to minimize the factors of VMC and how to recover from both a stall and a roll.

 

[AAflyer]

I think you mean rollover from Vmc with one eng. inop. vs. stalling. Stalling with one engine? Then you must be in a Seminole because a Baron will lose heading control before stall. If it stalls before going Vmc, then recovery is lower nose and gain speed, but not to dive. If you're in a Seminole, you lose Heading control about the same time as inducing the stall, so you have both going on at the same time. The bottom line is, no matter what kind of airplane, it is better to stall than lose heading and bank control and roll over upside down so that the impact is directly into your face. You can keep the wings level and you have abetter chance of getting the nose up into a normal landing attitude before impact from a stall. Even if you impact nose down into the ground, there is a better chance than upside down with the airplane on top of you.

But...nobody here really knows what you are asking. Your question does not have enough specific information describing the scenario.

Thanks for your input, actually that is the way the question was asked, and many of us like the responders on the board brought out certain aspects to get to a more specific question. You know how hangar flying starts.. Just curious as to the thoughts of other aviators.

AA

 

[AAflyer]

What happens with VMC and stalling varrys per airplane. I did my multi training in the seminole and the part that should worry you is at the point on the curve when the stall speed meets VMC. Normally the seminole will stall generally before it his VMC by design, as altitude increases on a naturally aspirated engine stall speed remains the same but VMC will increase. So there will be a point in which you will roll and stall at the same time as Nosehair above described, and that is the most dangerous place you should try and avoid.

Why? Because now you have stalled the airplane and have no control at the same time...
Just learn the procedures to minimize the factors of VMC and how to recover from both a stall and a roll.

I did, and I also used the seminole for my MEI training. Thanks for your comments. Just wondering the thought process of my fellow aviators.

AA

 

[VSUPilot]

As this is my first post, I will do my best not to ruffle any feathers. However, all of you who have done your multi training in seminoles/dutchess', understand that the factors that determine Vmc per the FAA only place a red radial line on the A/S indicator or a number in the POH--Not the airspeed that YOU are going to become a smoking hole. Hey, just because published stall speed is higher tha Vmc does not mean that you can't turn yourself upside down. If a plane begins to lose directional control, the pilot's thought process must be to reduce the one factor that is causing the problem--power on the operational engine: less power=no Vmc. If you stall, you have taken control out of the equation.
Shiny side up guys-
P.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Which would you define as worse!. We had a little hanger flying the other day with some instructors. There was a split down the middle on both.

Any thoughts,

AA

All things being equal (well as much as they can be in aviation) it depends on where I am. If I have just lifted off the runway and loose and engine I would wrather stall (ie going straight ahead) and flop back on the runway. If I am at altitude I would wrather maintain altitude (ie no stall) and loose heading.

Someone once put it to me in simple terms, light twins, PA44 especially, are certified to loose an engine and crash within 30 degrees of the runway centerline.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

If a plane begins to lose directional control, the pilot's thought process must be to reduce the one factor that is causing the problem--power on the operational engine: less power=no Vmc. If you stall, you have taken control out of the equation.
Shiny side up guys-
P.

One factor????

How about shove the nose over a bit and gain some directional control with the rudder????? Or a combo of the two????? More airspeed = More rudder effectiveness.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

...and back to my usual game of smart ass comments on flightinfo...

I was once in a 4G inverted dive with a MIG 28. :smash:

 

[VSUPilot]

One factor????

How about shove the nose over a bit and gain some directional control with the rudder????? Or a combo of the two????? More airspeed = More rudder effectiveness.

Not if you have already lost control. The problem here is assymetric thrust- with less power = less assymetric thrust. I understand that more airspeed give you more rudder authority, but it is power, or the reduction of power, that allows us to remain in control.

 

[MauleSkinner]

How about shove the nose over a bit and gain some directional control with the rudder?????

When my Dad experienced a Vmc roll in his multi training, "shoving" the nose would have DECREASED airspeed, since he was instantly upside-down.

Of course, this was back in the late '60s/early '70s, when they did the kind of stuff that resulted in requirements for Vsse, minimum altitudes for failing an engine, ....

Fly safe!

David