Visual Approach vs. Charted Visual Flight Procedures

[Ben Dover]

Are you obligated to adhere to Charted Visual Flight Procedures when "cleared for the visual?"

I don't have my charts or op spec with me, so I'm going a bit off of memory. (Assuming it's a 121 operation) You are "cleared for the visual" and happen to be at a point on a Charted Visual Flight Procedure (CVFP) where the CVFP begins, do you need to follow that procedure? I'm especially interested in figuring out about weather minimums.

For a Visual Approach the AIM section 5-4-21 (Visual Approach) paragraph a. says you need 1,000 ft ceiling and 3 miles vis. But what if the CVFP says you need more than that? Can you proceed with a visual approach, even though the wx is betther than 1,000 & 3, but less than is required by the CVFP?

The only thing I can find on this subject is in the AIM section 5-4-22. Charted Visual Flight Procedure (CVFP)

g. Published weather minimums for CVFPs are based on minimum vectoring altitudes rather than the recommended altitudes depicted on charts.

I'm a bit dense and can't really figure out what the above sentence (g.) means.

thanks in advance,
B. Dover

 

[Donsa320]

IMHO, unless the your clearance states the Charted Visual by name, you don't have to follow it. A "generic" visual approach clearance gives you more latitude. If in doubt, ask the controller if he wants you on the charted visual, never guess! <g>

D.C.

 

[Lead Sled]

IMHO, unless the your clearance states the Charted Visual by name, you don't have to follow it. A "generic" visual approach clearance gives you more latitude. If in doubt, ask the controller if he wants you on the charted visual, never guess!

That is correct. If you're cleared for "The Blankity Blank Visual Approach" you MUST fly the approach as published including ground track, altitude and other restrictions. Period. One of my buddies learned this the hard way in Phoenix. Hot to worry, they let him fly again after 30 days.

If you're cleared for "a visual approach" you only have to comply with whatever restrictions ATC might give you at the time - ie, "Turn final at or above 1500 feet" or "Remain east of the freeway", etc.

'Sled

 

[Dinger]

Regarding the ceiling a vis stuff. If you do not have the ceiling and vis for the CVFP, they will not assign it. They will just be assigning visuals (not charted) if it is better than 1000/3.

 

[TonyC]

g. Published weather minimums for CVFPs are based on minimum vectoring altitudes rather than the recommended altitudes depicted on charts.

I'm a bit dense and can't really figure out what the above sentence (g.) means.

Which part confuses you?

Is it the distinction between "minimum vectoring altitudes" vs. "recommended altitudes depicted on charts"?


I'm sure an ATC type can give you a better explanation, but I can take a hack at it. ATC often has the airspace broken down into much smaller chunks of airspace with their own minimum vectoring altitudes, where the chart you have access to has only large chunks with higher altitudes. You might have a recommended altitude based on a distance in any direction from a single Navaid. Perhaps the altitude it 5100' within 25 miles of ABC VOR. The controller might have the 5100' foot altitude at the ABC 334 degree radial and 8 miles, or within, say, 5 miles of that point, but everywhere else within 25 miles of ABC VOR might be 2200'. If the Charted Visual Flight Procedure comes nowhere close to that single obstacle, the minimums could be based on the 2200' Minimum Vectoring Altitude instead of the 5100' recommended minimum altitude on your chart.

It's quite common to be vectored below altitudes you have on your published charts; the controller uses the Minimum Vectoring Altitudes.

 

[Ben Dover]

Thanks to all for the replys.