Vis AND Ceiling required now?

[dispatchguy]

Read this in the FAR forum...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=97233

Now granted, I have been out of 121 for a while, is this a new thing, that you need BOTH ceiling AND vis to dispatch to an airport?

 

[shooter]

At some airports ceiling is required, noted on the approach plates. And if you think about it, ceiling is always a limiting factor like on on a CAT1 operation. You only need the Vis to start the approach, but if you do not bust out at your DH, you go around.

Just my take on it. If the FAA wants to limit to V&C, fine. Put it out there for IFR operations. But I do not see that is what that letter is saying.

 

[shooter]

Let me add to my post as it is even hard for me to understand what I am saying there.

If you are on the east coast and you are releasing an aircraft to the west coast and the current Wx reports below Wx mins, but the forecast is for above mins at ETA you send it. yes

If you are in ATL and you are sending a flight to CHA and the current Wx is 1/2 OVC001 you are below mins so you cant send it unless you can prove the ceiling is going to be at mins at ETA.

It is a Wx reports OR fcst OR combination of.

Now lets throw all that out the window since we are going to a CATII/III airport.

 

[Donsa320]

Let me add to my post as it is even hard for me to understand what I am saying there.

If you are on the east coast and you are releasing an aircraft to the west coast and the current Wx reports below Wx mins, but the forecast is for above mins at ETA you send it. yes

If you are in ATL and you are sending a flight to CHA and the current Wx is 1/2 OVC001 you are below mins so you cant send it unless you can prove the ceiling is going to be at mins at ETA.

It is a Wx reports OR fcst OR combination of.

Now lets throw all that out the window since we are going to a CATII/III airport.

Seems to me that "1/2 OVC001" is NOT below minimums if 1/2 mile is the required vis. Period.

 

[propsarebest]

Seems to me that "1/2 OVC001" is NOT below minimums if 1/2 mile is the required vis. Period.

That's true, but you can't start the approach with that. You need 200' and 1/2 mile usually.

 

[shooter]

Seems to me that "1/2 OVC001" is NOT below minimums if 1/2 mile is the required vis. Period.

okay, so if you were dispatching to an airport in a mountain location and the approach calls for 200' and 1/2, and the last 4 obs reported 3/4sm OVC/// you would release it? no way would I do that.

Only the vis is required to innitiate the approach. The mins are still 200' and 1/2sm. Period.

you know, all this is moot if the carrier has exemption 3585 and the blo mins Wx is not in the body.

 

[alpine1989]

This has been rumored for months. Captial Cargo went to the FAA and asked for a legal opinion. Now we are all F%cked.

 

[shooter]

This has been rumored for months. Captial Cargo went to the FAA and asked for a legal opinion. Now we are all F%cked.

tell them to get 3585 and it makes no difference.

 

[dispatchguy]

To me, an "authorized minimum" is what is controlling to shoot the approach. Unless the plate says CEILING REQUIRED, ceiling isnt required to dispatch to, nor initiate an approach.

For example, at Aspen, the published Ceiling/Vis for a CAT D airplane is 2400-3. All I need to dispatch to ASE, and to start an approach is 3 miles viz; granted unless I have the 2400' (or better) ceiling, I may not make it in; but I can dispatch in the old reading of 121.613

Now the interp says that I need the ceiling of 2400' AND the visibility of 3 miles; even though CEILING REQUIRED isnt going to be found anywhere on the approach plate.

 

[shooter]

This is not a new problem in Dispatch and until the rules are changed, or the verbiage is changed, the passage should be taken as a clear text and not try to read anything into it by reference to other FAR parts.

This issue is being addressed, but as with any FAA ruling it takes time or blood to get it resolved. On June 19, 2007 the office of rulemaking tried to address this issue which they say has merit but were not able to devote resources to a rulemaking project at that time.

The change proposed is:

• Amend 14 CFR 121.613, Dispatch or flight release under IFR or over the top, to allow a flight to be released without meeting the required approach minimums at the destination if an alternate airport is given in the dispatch release;

It will happen, just CYA until then. IMHO