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Virgin America

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jumppilot

Something in a box
Joined
Feb 14, 2002
Posts
477
Virgin America Quagmire

http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx?itemid=4350&ModuleId=4755&Tabid=256#jump

ALPA: Virgin America Application Fails to Satisfy U.S. Law ALPA blasted Virgin America’s application to engage in interstate scheduled air transportation in its recent comments to the Department of Transportation (DOT), citing that Virgin America’s failure to satisfy citizenship requirements contained in aviation statutes as reason for immediate rejection of the application.
“Virgin America’s application would have us believe that a company created, funded, organized, and staffed by foreign interests satisfies current U.S. law that prohibits foreign control of U.S. airlines,” said ALPA President Duane Woerth. “Virgin’s blatant smoke and mirrors attempt to steal into the U.S. market does not pass the straight-face test.”
U.S. law specifically states that, to provide air transportation in the U.S. domestic market, a corporation must be under the actual control of U.S. citizens. Yet, the Virgin Group, a foreign entity, is clearly in a position to control Virgin America.
The Virgin Group created, funded, and organized Virgin America, right down to hiring most of its key managers, including its CEO. The Virgin Group has provided more than $130 million – or 90 percent of its financing to date -- to Virgin America, including the company’s start-up capital. Foreigners currently hold more than 75 percent of the voting interest of Virgin America. Finally, the Virgin brand is essential to the applicant’s business plan, leaving it completely bound to whatever brand guidelines the Virgin Group may impose.
“It is obvious that the Virgin Group currently exerts powerful influence over Virgin America in myriad ways and will continue to do so in the future, especially through appointments to the company’s board,” Woerth continued. “Because the Board has the final say in Virgin’s structure, management, operations, business plan, aircraft purchases, and key managers, there’s little doubt where the power lies.”
Virgin America’s application to the DOT claims that it has U.S. investor partners, yet these partners did not approach the Virgin Group—rather the Virgin Group solicited them. The U.S. investor partners do not have an extensive track record in terms of aviation or business experience.
“I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell to anyone who is naive enough to believe Virgin’s assertion that a few hand-picked U.S. hedge fund investors with no aviation management experience will do more than defer to the dominant expertise of the Virgin Group,” Woerth said.
Even if the Department of Transportation were to implement its misguided proposal to allow foreign control of U.S. airlines, the Virgin America application would still fail to qualify as a U.S. citizen.
“Virgin America’s organizational structure presents an affront to the laws of this land,” concluded Woerth. “However, Virgin America has sought to keep this structure out of the public eye by asking that its organizational documents be kept secret. Because the application so openly challenges the long-standing U.S. policy that prohibits foreign interests from controlling U.S. airlines, the company’s relationship with the Virgin Group should be put on the public record and its application should be the subject of an open debate, not a clandestine, backdoor deal.”
 
i think that would be a great place to work.....i like to see alpa looking out for my well being on this account.....but come on??/? i think the alpa pilots who would work there would be better off than the TWA pilots who were represented by alpa.....do not get me wrong, i think my alpa reps work their butts off, its just i think this issue might be lost.......heck, who else out there would work for virgin? i know i would
 
xjhawk said:
i think that would be a great place to work.....i like to see alpa looking out for my well being on this account.....but come on??/? i think the alpa pilots who would work there would be better off than the TWA pilots who were represented by alpa.....do not get me wrong, i think my alpa reps work their butts off, its just i think this issue might be lost.......heck, who else out there would work for virgin? i know i would


your kidding right?
 
Great place to work???????

xjhawk said:
i think that would be a great place to work.....i like to see alpa looking out for my well being on this account.....but come on??/? i think the alpa pilots who would work there would be better off than the TWA pilots who were represented by alpa.....do not get me wrong, i think my alpa reps work their butts off, its just i think this issue might be lost.......heck, who else out there would work for virgin? i know i would

"great place to work"!!!! Of course, you're flying an RJ now, and now you want to 'fly a Big Airplane, for RJ pay'?? That's part of the problem. And now, VA is just Branson flying in the U.S., on the 'cheap' with "puppet" Owners, that is the way that it "appears" and that's all alpa is saying. If so, then they are violating the law?? Let's at least hear the truth, Right??

I also say, "Go the F$%k home, Branson" JMHO
 
PlaneDrvr said:
"great place to work"!!!! Of course, you're flying an RJ now, and now you want to 'fly a Big Airplane, for RJ pay'?? That's part of the problem. And now, VA is just Branson flying in the U.S., on the 'cheap' with "puppet" Owners, that is the way that it "appears" and that's all alpa is saying. If so, then they are violating the law?? Let's at least hear the truth, Right??

I also say, "Go the F$%k home, Branson" JMHO

As Yoda would say: "put it better, I could have not"... :beer:
 
Why is everyone so unhappy? Your dream is to fly a shiny jet and look cool walking through the airport. I can make that dream come true, at a low cost to you. It's win-win. Come on board! You can be the hero you've always wanted to be to thousands of passengers in flip-flops, tank tops, and no deodorant.

The thrill and excitement of actually flying for a big outfit like VA is all you need in life. You can live with your parents or make your spouse go to work. That'll make sure you have enough to eat. You need to eat. Otherwise, you'll starve.
 
I think the main reason us 'RJ pukes' would consider going to VA is because we are stuck at regionals without any hopes of ever making more money at a major, at least if you got in at the start of a new company you would have a better chance at upgrade and seniority. I am a FO flying an RJ making 35K per year. I have 6 more years at my current payrate until my projected upgrade date into a Saab turboprop which I will make about 50k/yr. What would you do? If some of the majors would turn things around, call back all the furloughed, and start newhires again then it wouldnt be an issue. If I had a choice between Delta/United/USAir/AA or VA, well I wouldnt give VA a shot at all.
 
Don Carty said:
Why is everyone so unhappy? Your dream is to fly a shiny jet and look cool walking through the airport. I can make that dream come true, at a low cost to you. It's win-win. Come on board! You can be the hero you've always wanted to be to thousands of passengers in flip-flops, tank tops, and no deodorant.

The thrill and excitement of actually flying for a big outfit like VA is all you need in life. You can live with your parents or make your spouse go to work. That'll make sure you have enough to eat. You need to eat. Otherwise, you'll starve.

Dear Mr. Carty,

Some of us here at the company you drove into the ground would like to ask you a question, if it's not too much of an imposition...

We have a general idea how much time you spent under Branson's desk to get the position of CEO at Virgin America, and since we couldn't possibly think any less of you anyway, we don't blame you for puckering up and blowing your way to a new job (after all, how could you possibly be expected to survive on the multi-million dollar Golden Parachute you received from AMR). But our question is, now that you are CEO, during your post-coital snuggling sessions with Mr. Branson, does he still make you comb his beard and insist on you calling him "Sir"?

Sincerely,

AMR Employees
 
Flyby1206 said:
I think the main reason us 'RJ pukes' would consider going to VA is because we are stuck at regionals without any hopes of ever making more money at a major, at least if you got in at the start of a new company you would have a better chance at upgrade and seniority. I am a FO flying an RJ making 35K per year. I have 6 more years at my current payrate until my projected upgrade date into a Saab turboprop which I will make about 50k/yr. What would you do? If some of the majors would turn things around, call back all the furloughed, and start newhires again then it wouldnt be an issue. If I had a choice between Delta/United/USAir/AA or VA, well I wouldnt give VA a shot at all.
I would find a better job. Thats what I would do. Don't use the excuse I can't move, If you do you deserve your situation.
 
hammer2 said:
I would find a better job. Thats what I would do. Don't use the excuse I can't move, If you do you deserve your situation.

Exactly. I don't get why Eagle drivers feel stuck at a job in which upgrade to a RJ is 8-9 years. That's insane, I tell ya, insane.
 
to all you idiots at majors calling us regional pilots pukes, look in the mirror at who ruined this industry....seriously.....you ruined everything...along with the management.....your actions created a industry norm which led us to where we are at today.....and ask jet blue if they are making good money....ask NWA if they are making RJ pay....yes they are......
 
Wait a second!

Every single pilot at every single pax carrying "major" has caved on their contracts. (Yeah, I know "all" of you voted against your concessionary contracts... :rolleyes: ) All you are doing is trying to shore up your very tenuous positions at what's left of the "majors" by hoping VA doesn't start ops. Is there any furloughed pilot from a "major" who hasn't sent in an app at JetBlue? AirTran? Frontier?

You didn't think twice when your carrier was putting PanAm, EAL, Frontier, TWA, et al out of business in the '80's. "If you can't compete, you shouldn't survive." I guess it's a little different now that YOU have to worry about competing and keeping YOUR job.

I just hope Duane is as effective at preventing the startup of VA as he and ALPA was at holding the line on concessionary contacts. TC
 
xjhawk said:
to all you idiots at majors calling us regional pilots pukes, look in the mirror at who ruined this industry....seriously.....you ruined everything...along with the management.....your actions created a industry norm which led us to where we are at today.....and ask jet blue if they are making good money....ask NWA if they are making RJ pay....yes they are......

Hawk has a point Boy's and Girl's.. The Regionals didn't hack their contracts, they were hacked to begin with.
 
ils2minimums said:
Dear Mr. Carty,

Some of us here at the company you drove into the ground would like to ask you a question, if it's not too much of an imposition...

We have a general idea how much time you spent under Branson's desk to get the position of CEO at Virgin America, and since we couldn't possibly think any less of you anyway, we don't blame you for puckering up and blowing your way to a new job (after all, how could you possibly be expected to survive on the multi-million dollar Golden Parachute you received from AMR). But our question is, now that you are CEO, during your post-coital snuggling sessions with Mr. Branson, does he still make you comb his beard and insist on you calling him "Sir"?

Sincerely,

AMR Employees

Always good to hear from my loyal employees at AA! I've got a warm spot for all of you because my offshore accounts are bulging, especially the one in the Caymans.

Actually, I like balloons. Big red balloons. Richard promised me extra balloon rides if I could get an "PFT-scale" pay package in place. We are well on our way. All we have to do is show them pictures of our shiny jets. Pilots will do anything to fly them.
 

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