Virgin America may seek public offering next year, CEO says

[bri5150]

Wow......there is a lot of company pride over there at Redwood......what the hell are they putting in the water over there......
If every worker in all facets of industry was as enthusiastic about their company as you guys are, U.S. industry in general would steamroll the world in a month......
I enjoy your enthusiasm, and wish you all the luck......
And for LearLove.....The Stew stock has been dropping considerably, but a least young....I see quite a few bum'in rides.....at least they are females.....

Maybe it is Kool-Aid, but when I went in for the interview over there it was a great product that nobody else in the domestic market has. Everyone that works there is happy right down to the gate agent. I started just asking random Virgin employees about how they like their job (I had time in the airport waiting for my redeye back to JFK to pick up my trip) and every single one of them absolutely loved it. It wasn't just a canned response. Their eyes lit up and they were genuinely ecstatic about working their. After going out there, I honestly think this place is the best kept secret in the airlines. Obviously the discussion in this thread is a big concern for me, but other than that, I can't wait to get started.

 

[Blue Dude]

I remember those days. Believe me, you get over it. None of that pays your bills, helps your sick kid, or makes up for lost time with your family. In the end, you have to take care of them regardless of how excited you are by your job. By all means, take the job if it's a step up, but realize that good feelings won't keep your lights on and happy gate agents won't be there to hold your hand in the nursing home.

 

[Flyer1015]

I remember those days. Believe me, you get over it. None of that pays your bills, helps your sick kid, or makes up for lost time with your family. In the end, you have to take care of them regardless of how excited you are by your job. By all means, take the job if it's a step up, but realize that good feelings won't keep your lights on and happy gate agents won't be there to hold your hand in the nursing home.

Those arent airline pilot complaints, bills, sick kid, nursing home? Those things can happen regardless of being a pilot or not.

 

[bri5150]

I remember those days. Believe me, you get over it. None of that pays your bills, helps your sick kid, or makes up for lost time with your family. In the end, you have to take care of them regardless of how excited you are by your job. By all means, take the job if it's a step up, but realize that good feelings won't keep your lights on and happy gate agents won't be there to hold your hand in the nursing home.

It may not last, I don't know. When I was out there, it seemed like their biggest goal when hiring someone is to keep that culture. Only time will tell I guess.

 

[Blue Dude]

Those arent airline pilot complaints, bills, sick kid, nursing home? Those things can happen regardless of being a pilot or not.

This isn't an airline pilot problem, as such. It can strike anyone, but only airline pilots seem to lock themselves into situations that affect the rest of their working lives so willingly. It's the willingness to think culture is more important in the long run than what you earn. It's not and never will be. Nobody wants to work where you hate your job, but loving your job doesn't take care of your family either. Point is, being happy-oh-so-happy on the job doesn't make anyplace a good career destination in and of itself. In the end, you still have to take care of yourself and your family, and joyous coworkers don't do anything to replace good net income, good insurance and a useful retirement package.

 

[Blue Dude]

It may not last, I don't know. When I was out there, it seemed like their biggest goal when hiring someone is to keep that culture. Only time will tell I guess.

They will keep the culture at all costs, but the cost will ultimately be borne by you and your family. The culture itself becomes a lever to make you think that you're not a team player if you want to be better compensated, better treated, or better rewarded for your loyalty. You provide a service at a cost to the airline, and the airline's job is to keep that cost as low as possible. They don't work for you; they work for the investors. The vaunted culture is a way to keep you happy with less money, then make you feel guilty if later you express the opinion that you may have received the short end of the bargain.

VA is still in the happy, us-against-the-world phase. Soon it will transition into the why-are-we-still-being-paid-startup-wages-and-benefits phase, followed by we're-a-major-airline-with-regional-pilot-benefits phase. Problem is that many pilots (and indeed people in general) are happiest at the early phase and want to stay there, and will vociferously deny that they're being taken advantage of, that culture really doesn't provide your family any tangible value. This makes it difficult to press for better pay and benefits in the short term, and career protections in the long term. For instance, how far will good will and fabulous culture take you if and when the airline - if it survives at all - is acquired or merged with another?

In short, culture is a management tool. It makes you feel good during working hours, but it's ultimately a method to keep your cost of employment down.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Blue Dude,

Phase II is well underway. Thanks for the insight. Seriously, all VA pilots need to read and heed your advice.

 

[bri5150]

They will keep the culture at all costs, but the cost will ultimately be borne by you and your family. The culture itself becomes a lever to make you think that you're not a team player if you want to be better compensated, better treated, or better rewarded for your loyalty. You provide a service at a cost to the airline, and the airline's job is to keep that cost as low as possible. They don't work for you; they work for the investors. The vaunted culture is a way to keep you happy with less money, then make you feel guilty if later you express the opinion that you may have received the short end of the bargain.

VA is still in the happy, us-against-the-world phase. Soon it will transition into the why-are-we-still-being-paid-startup-wages-and-benefits phase, followed by we're-a-major-airline-with-regional-pilot-benefits phase. Problem is that many pilots (and indeed people in general) are happiest at the early phase and want to stay there, and will vociferously deny that they're being taken advantage of, that culture really doesn't provide your family any tangible value. This makes it difficult to press for better pay and benefits in the short term, and career protections in the long term. For instance, how far will good will and fabulous culture take you if and when the airline - if it survives at all - is acquired or merged with another?

In short, culture is a management tool. It makes you feel good during working hours, but it's ultimately a method to keep your cost of employment down.

While I completely understand what you are saying, I think it is too cut and dry. There is always middle ground. Just because you have good culture doesn't mean you have to be paid less. I don't know what the employees are paid at Google, but they certainly have a good culture and I don't think they are underpaid. Southwest pilots would say they have a good culture and they are well compensated for the flying they do. We'll see where it all pans out. You may well be right.

 

[Flyer1015]

This isn't an airline pilot problem, as such. It can strike anyone, but only airline pilots seem to lock themselves into situations that affect the rest of their working lives so willingly. It's the willingness to think culture is more important in the long run than what you earn. It's not and never will be. Nobody wants to work where you hate your job, but loving your job doesn't take care of your family either. Point is, being happy-oh-so-happy on the job doesn't make anyplace a good career destination in and of itself. In the end, you still have to take care of yourself and your family, and joyous coworkers don't do anything to replace good net income, good insurance and a useful retirement package.

I never said culture is more important than what you earn.

They will keep the culture at all costs, but the cost will ultimately be borne by you and your family. The culture itself becomes a lever to make you think that you're not a team player if you want to be better compensated, better treated, or better rewarded for your loyalty. You provide a service at a cost to the airline, and the airline's job is to keep that cost as low as possible. They don't work for you; they work for the investors. The vaunted culture is a way to keep you happy with less money, then make you feel guilty if later you express the opinion that you may have received the short end of the bargain.

The above is true, and has been true for every legacy/major carrier today.

VA is still in the happy, us-against-the-world phase. Soon it will transition into the why-are-we-still-being-paid-startup-wages-and-benefits phase, followed by we're-a-major-airline-with-regional-pilot-benefits phase. Problem is that many pilots (and indeed people in general) are happiest at the early phase and want to stay there, and will vociferously deny that they're being taken advantage of, that culture really doesn't provide your family any tangible value. This makes it difficult to press for better pay and benefits in the short term, and career protections in the long term. For instance, how far will good will and fabulous culture take you if and when the airline - if it survives at all - is acquired or merged with another?

I think phase II is already here. About your last sentence/comment, in a M&A scenario, how would Jetblue fare in that? I'd imagine it'd be the same as any other non-union carrier.

 

[Blue Dude]

About your last sentence/comment, in a M&A scenario, how would Jetblue fare in that? I'd imagine it'd be the same as any other non-union carrier.

No question we'd be raped. I suppose that's why it's on my mind. I just don't understand why so many *here* are still mentally in "phase 1". Frustrating to say the least.