Virgin America - do pilots have to sign any work agreement/ contract

[shon7]

Does VX makes pilots sign an individual work agreement like JBLU and do these automatically renew after 5 years ?

 

[tzskipper]

Does VX makes pilots sign an individual work agreement like JBLU and do these automatically renew after 5 years ?

No....

 

[FlyAuburn]

What is the VA pilot group doing about your payrates? Unfortunately, JB's management has decided that VA will be included in our peer set next year, even though VA is not considered a major airline yet. Thus, your rates will bring our average down.

 

[Blue Dude]

It doesn't matter. We'll vote in ALPA long before they get around to our second (skipped) pay adjustment, and then we'll be frozen with current rates for probably 3-4 years before our first contract is signed. By then, either VA will be gone, up to par, or ignored. No way they're going to "bring down" our rates in any way.

 

[Busdriver320]

What is the VA pilot group doing about your payrates? Unfortunately, JB's management has decided that VA will be included in our peer set next year, even though VA is not considered a major airline yet. Thus, your rates will bring our average down.

Not being flippant here, but what were JB's rates in their 3rd year of Ops (VA started the 3rd year in August '10)? Not today's 3rd year, but back in what, 2002-3?
I would love to do something about our rates (VA), but we don't have an argument. Look at Spirit's new rates for anything less than 6th year capts, they're lower than VA's. Ditto for everyone else (just about). I understand the deal, Spirit doesn't HAVE less than a 9 year capt, so they didn't bother negotiating decent rates below 6th year, which is probably what they figure the most junior capts will be at some point (with their projected growth). Same for everyone else, no pilots in that range so why bother negotiating a rate, right?

So what happens when us VA guys go to mgmt and say we want more? We get told we're making the same or more than other A320 operators, for our same longevity. How do we argue with that? The tipping point will be when we have people reaching 6th year pay and its $15 less than NK, 7th year $20 less, and so on. THAT will be the time we can make a valid argument.

 

[Sailpilot]

Isn't 10 year VA 320 CA rates Higher then USair's?

Oh well, I guess USair (America West rebranded) is busy fighting with each other instead of moving forward...

3...2...1! Here it comes!:bomb:

 

[FlyAuburn]

Not being flippant here, but what were JB's rates in their 3rd year of Ops (VA started the 3rd year in August '10)? Not today's 3rd year, but back in what, 2002-3?
I would love to do something about our rates (VA), but we don't have an argument. Look at Spirit's new rates for anything less than 6th year capts, they're lower than VA's. Ditto for everyone else (just about). I understand the deal, Spirit doesn't HAVE less than a 9 year capt, so they didn't bother negotiating decent rates below 6th year, which is probably what they figure the most junior capts will be at some point (with their projected growth). Same for everyone else, no pilots in that range so why bother negotiating a rate, right?

So what happens when us VA guys go to mgmt and say we want more? We get told we're making the same or more than other A320 operators, for our same longevity. How do we argue with that? The tipping point will be when we have people reaching 6th year pay and its $15 less than NK, 7th year $20 less, and so on. THAT will be the time we can make a valid argument.

I was hired in 2005, so I don't know what kind of resistance the pilots were giving management back then. I can tell you that from the moment I arrived, this group has been trying to improve our rates and work rules in one way or another (committees, union drives, etc). I see your logic and I appreciate your honesty. I conclude that your rates will not change for another 2-3 years. Or at least that you will not start trying until that time. And then, only God knows how long it will take to get at least industry average pay rates.

 

[BeachBummer]

Isn't 10 year VA 320 CA rates Higher then USair's?

Oh well, I guess USair (America West rebranded) is busy fighting with each other instead of moving forward...

3...2...1! Here it comes!:bomb:

:uzi:Come on sail. You could have checked that.

USA 10yr 320 CA= $122
VA 10yr Bus CA = $133

Not to mention they are fairly close to what JB was before the last bump.

Dont turn this VA bashing into a E v W throw down.

 

[NEDude]

Ten year UAL A320 captain is $134.
Ten year Spirit A320 captain is $138.

Spirit had to strike to get $5/hr more than VA rates. VA has not been a round nearly long enough, nor is big enough, to have a negative effect on other airline pay rates. And we are in the ballpark with two legacies, and an LCC that just had to strike to get into that ballpark.

VA rates are not great, we all recognize that. But they are not out of line with the industry and are quite reasonable for an airline just just started year three of operations. The pay rates will come up in time, just like they did for JetBlue.

 

[Caveman]

What is the VA pilot group doing about your payrates? Unfortunately, JB's management has decided that VA will be included in our peer set next year, even though VA is not considered a major airline yet. Thus, your rates will bring our average down.

I don't know where you stand on our ALPA drive so take this with a grain of salt, but JetBlue pilots need to get in the game and help negotiate higher rates instead of letting other groups do the heavy lifting. We need to negotiate our own contract using other contracts as benchmarks. It's called pattern bargaining and it only works if everyone participates. So far we've been content to let others do the work. In effect we (JetBlue) are still part of the problem. We are hindering the progress of other groups negotiations because of the gaping holes we have in our work rules and benefits. Instead of accepting PSIA we should be trying to create a new benchmark. YMMV.