VFR travel in midwest at Christmastime with baby - bad idea?

[PeteCO]

I am a VFR pilot with a 6 month old son. He loves to fly and doesn't mind the noise.

My wife and I are debating flying from Colorado to Toledo OH to visit family for Christmas. I have made this trip several times but always in the summer.

My concern is the low ceilings and generally cruddy weather than can occur in the winter. I have several days of flexibility with my vacation time, so I'm not concerned with being rushed, but at the same time I don't want to spend a week in a hotel in Iowa waiting for weather to clear.

A secondary concern is my son. I might be tempted to fly high to get more favorable winds, but I assume small children would be more susceptible to hypoxia than my wife and I. Not to mention that even though he enjoys flights in the local area he might get motion sickness.

Suggestions? How fast does cruddy weather moves in when it does get nasty out? As I recall from my childhood, this weather can linger several days. I am not nearly concerned about this as about the baby though.

 

[navigator72]

How long is this flight under normal conditions?
If you were IFR, i'd say do it. Since you aren't and you are the mercy of the weather. I'd say fly commercially.

 

[RedGuy]

If you don't have an instrument ticket I wouldn't advise it. The weather around the great lakes can change very fast that time of year, forcast are really pretty useless around then. Also we do get the merky weather that can hang in there for weeks at a time too. But it could be solid VFR for several days at a time too, you just never know. If you want to do long trips like that you should really look into getting your instrument ticket.

 

[JimG]

Here's a long lesson from a guy who's been flying for 25 years, with 1500 hours, an MEI license and flies a C340 that's certified into known icing.

Make yourself a couple of airline reservations.

If it's something important like Christmas, or if I have a business meeting where I HAVE to be there....I don't hesitate to go commercial and look out the window in the back of the bus and go...."damn...I could've flown myself".

Especially seeing as you're taking your family along too.....I never regret taking the safest/surest way out with mine (and yes I've flown them through clouds/precipitation along the route, but my destination was solid VFR).

There's an old saying when it comes to flying and weather....

"Have time...will fly".

Don't be afraid to be a chicken sometimes....you'll live longer and so will your family.

Dick Karl's column in Flying Magazine this month wrote about this same thing BTW....he had airline tickets as a back up plan for an important event he had to be to, and he flies a Cheyenne I, with several thousands of hours TT.


Now....about the hypoxia...

Your baby's ears are more of the concern if you stay below 12,500, however in the latter years of our flying in a Bonanza when I put the O2 bottle back in (moved to Utah where the rocks are tall), my rule was they had to wear a cannula above 10,000, (which was most of the time) like I did.

They were about 6 & 8 y/o at that time.

They didn't like it, but I didn't give them a choice.

A trip UP TO 12,500 occasionally isn't going to hurt your baby....he/she will just go to sleep.

I wouldn't go higher than that w/o O2 on, and I live/run at 7000 feet every day.

 

[retired guy]

Don`t do it..... Airliner, private auto, or Grayhound....I say again...don`t do it....

 

[avbug]

If you mail the baby now, you may have just enough time to get it there before Christmas.

If you wait, there's always FedEx.


When that baby's just absolutely, positively gotta be there overnight.

 

[brnstrmr]

As a longtime upper midwest pilot, I can tell you that as the days get shorter the weather gets worse. Low ceilings, visisbilities and icing can last days and weeks. Even an instrument rating is not really a help. Given the length of this trip, you have a very high probability of running into serious winter weather. This is the most treacherous time of year to fly. Buy an airline ticket, the peace of mind alone will be worth the price.

 

[Princedietrich]

As a lifelong resident of Ohio, I'll agree with my colleagues here. The weather around here in the winter is generally crappy and extremely unpredictable. The old joke is that if you don't like the weather in Ohio, just wait an hour and it'll be different. Sometimes we get gluts of crud where we don't see the sun for a month or so, other times it's clear blue and a million for weeks on end. Drastic changes in conditions from one day to the next, or even from morning to evening, are commonplace here.

If you're going to fly this trip yourself, get IFR rated. Don't attempt it VFR, you'll be setting yourself up for Murphy to kick your teeth in.

 

[JimG]

If you're going to fly this trip yourself, get IFR rated. Don't attempt it VFR, you'll be setting yourself up for Murphy to kick your teeth in.

Good advice but..... don't get lulled into thinking that just b/c you have an instrument rating, that you're "good to go" anytime.

It's one thing to have the rating, and another to be a GOOD instrument pilot in a rental airplane on top of that.

I've had my instrument for several years and own a plane capable of handling just about anything Mother Nature can throw at me.

But I never think "I've got the rating and the airplane...so I'm ok to go off flying in that crud".

Maybe flying east of the Rockies is a different mindset though.

 

[Princedietrich]

In the midwest there isn't as much fear involved in flying in the crud because there's nothing to smack into, unless you get REALLY low. In the Appalachians, and to a greater extent the Rockies, there are those pesky mountains to deal with.

But JimG is correct, having the IFR rating will mitigate the REGULATORY factors of getting weathered in. Whether or not you posess the proficiency and skill and confidence/insanity to fly in the weather safely is totally up to you.

 

[avbug]

own a plane capable of handling just about anything Mother Nature can throw at me.

It's good that you appreciate your own limitations, but that quoted line is a worry. If your airplane that's capable of handling just about anything mother nature can throw at you is one of the aircraft you've got listed in your bio...you need to experience more of what mother nature can throw at you before you make such dangerous, sweeping assumptions.

The Cessna 340 is a nice light piston twin, but far from excepionally capable in weather. Like the 310, it will do okay up to a point, but it's full of limitations, including performance limitations. If it's any of the single engine airplanes in your bio to which you're referring...let's not even go there.

There's not an aircraft made that can handle anything mother nature can throw at it. Let alone a light piston single or twin.

What's the definition of severe icing, after all...but icing in excess of what the aircraft systems can handle, right? (right). If you haven't seen that yet, plan carefully so that you don't, because you had better believe that mother nature can throw a whole lot more your way than either you, or your airplane can handle.

 

[down2mins]

Agreed on the changing Wx. I instruct out of CMH. (Partly because of Wx), but in Nov, I had 6 VFR flights.

 

[xjcaptain]

I guess I'll be the lone dissenter here.....with a few caveats. Flying in the midwest in the winter can be some of the best flying conditions around, providing there is a large high pressure system parked in the middle of the country. This happens quite regularly. With that said it is also very reasonable to expect low IFR conditions that could stick around for quite a while if that high isn't there. With the proper weather the trip could be great. Excellent visibility, smooth rides, better than normal performance due to the cold temperatures and great tailwinds eastbound. Might take a bit longer getting hime through!!! However, don't get trapped into HAVING to get together with the family and allowing that to cloud your judgement. Watch the weather, watch your limitations and enjoy the ride.

 

[JimG]

There's not an aircraft made that can handle anything mother nature can throw at it. Let alone a light piston single or twin.

Agree 100% with your post.

I'm not going to argue with you one bit.

I was actually exaggerating to make a point the other way that my 340 (only plane I own right now) can handle ALOT more Wx than I'll ever be comfortable flying in.

That's all.

If you haven't read many of my posts, then you don't know that I have this big yellow streak down the middle of my back when it comes to serious Wx flying.

It starts at the base of my skull and runs right down to my ass.

 

[wrxpilot]

Dick Karl's column in Flying Magazine this month wrote about this same thing BTW....he had airline tickets as a back up plan for an important event he had to be to, and he flies a Cheyenne I, with several thousands of hours TT.

I strongly agree with this advice. I'm doing a considerably longer but possibly easier (weather wise) trip from Colorado to south FL for Christmas in a 172. I have an instrument rating, but it's fresh so I'm going to be very conservative (no hard IFR). I have fully refundable roundtrip tickets on southwest, as does my passenger. This will allow me to have a clear head when making a decision about the trip on departure day.