VFR departure from non-towered airport

[SSDD]

I know its not regulatory, but at my company, we treat it the same as Class D. So if we're making a right turn, we go straight out for 5 miles before turning.

 

[midlifeflyer]

He did not state a source

...because he didn't have one.

As I said to Avbug, the term "fuzzy" defining vicnity fits here

Except that vicinity is irrelevant to the departure question.

But FWIW, "vicinity" in 91.126 has a situational-based meaning that might loosely be defined as "a distance that has a potential impact on other traffic in the pattern," or, like pornography, "We know it when we see it."

The best example is probably the Alaska Airlines cases. The later of the two is here. http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/AVIATION/3523.PDF The earlier is before the NTSB started posting them on the website, but in the earlier one, the distance was 6 miles.

 

[nismo611]

I believe that meteorological conditions apply. If it is in IMC you don't have to worry about conflicts with VFR traffic if it is VMC follow VFR procedures until you are clear of the traffic pattern. Your ATC clearance should specify what heading to enter controlled airspace so it also depends where the controlled airspace begins. avbug can spout out regs all day he is a moron. Some people like avbug and that CFI will come up to you spouting off, who cares what they think!!!! Screw em do what you want as long as it is safe he is a dick and so is avbug.

 

[JAFI]

I believe that meteorological conditions apply. If it is in IMC you don't have to worry about conflicts with VFR traffic if it is VMC follow VFR procedures until you are clear of the traffic pattern. Your ATC clearance should specify what heading to enter controlled airspace so it also depends where the controlled airspace begins. avbug can spout out regs all day he is a moron. Some people like avbug and that CFI will come up to you spouting off, who cares what they think!!!! Screw em do what you want as long as it is safe he is a dick and so is avbug.

I beg to differ - See and Avoid REGARDLESS of weather conditions. If your statement was true, how come (when I was on an IFR flight plan) I was normally dodging slow VFR traffic in IMC at Instrument altitudes?

do what you want as long as it is safe

I would like to see your reference or legal interpitation for that statement......

As to who is a dick or a moron, I think you have had enough juice today. Put the juice box back in the fridge and let the sugar wear off before you post any more "intelligent" observations.

 

[avbug]

This also begs the question, of course, why one would introduce an incorrect application of IFR procedures, when this thread involves a question founded in giving VFR airplane rides at an uncontrolled field.

Absolutely see and avoid is the rule, and the law.

One is left to wonder how an ATC clearance applies here...seeing as we're discussing VFR uncontrolled flying at an uncontrolled field...and there's no clearance involved.

 

[satpak77]

additional question (we know what happens in real world ops, but...) you land at a towered non-radar field (ie West Texas) at 9:55 PM, the tower closes at 10 PM. Your pax arrive at 1005 PM, you pick up IFR clearance from Center which states "maintain VFR until entering controlled airspace" (which starts at 2000 AGL in this area). You departure runway is Runway 36, and your IFR route is Northeastery, heading 045.

Center adds that "we can talk to you but we can't see you till past about 3000 AGL, we aren't talking to any traffic in the area."

VFR procedures at this field dictate left traffic, all runways. Field is severe clear, VMC conditions, albeit night.

Do you take off, climb on course, right turn out? Or straight out departure for a mile or two, then on course?

Or take off, left traffic, left climbing downwind, climbing left base, then head on course?

what is the correct answer? (this is sure to generate some discussion)

 

[brokeflyer]

the answer is you depart on a left downwind(assuming a left hand pattern)...then when you are clear of the traffic pattern you continue on your planned course.

that is that.

 

[pilotyip]

Right turn out OK

additional question (we know what happens in real world ops, but...) you land at a towered non-radar field (ie West Texas) at 9:55 PM, the tower closes at 10 PM. Your pax arrive at 1005 PM, you pick up IFR clearance from Center which states "maintain VFR until entering controlled airspace" (which starts at 2000 AGL in this area). You departure runway is Runway 36, and your IFR route is Northeastery, heading 045.

Center adds that "we can talk to you but we can't see you till past about 3000 AGL, we aren't talking to any traffic in the area."

VFR procedures at this field dictate left traffic, all runways. Field is severe clear, VMC conditions, albeit night.

Do you take off, climb on course, right turn out? Or straight out departure for a mile or two, then on course?

Or take off, left traffic, left climbing downwind, climbing left base, then head on course?

what is the correct answer? (this is sure to generate some discussion)

In a left hand traffic airport, proceed straight out until clear of the vicinity and within 300' of the traffic pattern, announce you are making a right turn that you are clear of traffic, then make the right turn. Source FAA after someone called the FAA and said I made an illegal departure from an uncontrolled airport in the B-17. I told the FAA we were 1.5 to 2 miles from the airport and no longer in vicinity of the airport, announced we were turning right, and cleared the area for traffic when we made the turn, he said that was an acceptable procedure. I have been using this procedure for 30 years, and teaching it to my students. No complaints except the one while flying the B-17.

 

[Flyin2low]

The airport has a left hand traffic pattern. I want to make a right turn out after departure. How far and at what altitude do I have to be from the airport before I make my right turn? I have been using 1 mile and 300' below the traffic pattern altitude. Whats more I have been teaching my students this for 30 years. I was recently told by another CFI that this was not in keeping with proper departure procedures. Any comments?

You should have had him explain how a rotary inverter works as long as he is such an expert at everything.

 

[AC560]

Do you take off, climb on course, right turn out? Or straight out departure for a mile or two, then on course?

Or take off, left traffic, left climbing downwind, climbing left base, then head on course?

what is the correct answer? (this is sure to generate some discussion)

Why would you turn left, go all the way around the traffic pattern, and then go NE. The obvious answer is climb out, leave the pattern (not regulatory defined but 1-2 miles out is a good enough rough thumb to comply with 91.13 and common sense), and turn right to the NE.

The best and safest thing to do is get away from the airport traffic pattern as soon as practicable when departing.

 

[brokeflyer]

We just climb out and by the time we reach the end of the runway we are 2000+ feet above the traffic pattern.....problem solves itself.

 

[pilotyip]

Not in a B-17

We just climb out and by the time we reach the end of the runway we are 2000+ feet above the traffic pattern.....problem solves itself.

In a B-17, turbo's set a step 5.5, we are about 100' AGL at the end of 5000' runway

 

[sqwkvfr]

additional question (we know what happens in real world ops, but...) you land at a towered non-radar field (ie West Texas) at 9:55 PM, the tower closes at 10 PM. Your pax arrive at 1005 PM, you pick up IFR clearance from Center which states "maintain VFR until entering controlled airspace" (which starts at 2000 AGL in this area). You departure runway is Runway 36, and your IFR route is Northeastery, heading 045.

Center adds that "we can talk to you but we can't see you till past about 3000 AGL, we aren't talking to any traffic in the area."

VFR procedures at this field dictate left traffic, all runways. Field is severe clear, VMC conditions, albeit night.

Do you take off, climb on course, right turn out? Or straight out departure for a mile or two, then on course?

Or take off, left traffic, left climbing downwind, climbing left base, then head on course?

what is the correct answer? (this is sure to generate some discussion)

I would fly the OCP described in the NACO chart book.

 

[ackattacker]

I think this question has been asked and answered as best as it's going to be. FWIW a little common sense goes a long way. You need to consider the size of the field and the type of aircraft that are operating there, then be clear of the traffic pattern before commencing any non-standard turns.

Now when it comes to the dealing with (avoiding?) the FAA a little common sense goes a long way also. Don't announce that you're making a right base entry to a left-hand traffic pattern since that would be a violation... instead turn a long final (again "clear of the traffic pattern") and announce that you are straight in.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

I usually climb out 1500' to 2000' agl before I turn on course (right turn) to prevent/ see inbound traffic, such as jets or turboprops which enter the pattern at a higher altitude. See and Avoid is the key. How you want to interpret it is up to you.....Good Luck...........