Very Important... Contact your senator.

[ShawnC]

Amendments Pass in Committee Not GA-Friendly
September 19, 2002 - EAA has learned from congressional sources that the U.S. Senate Commerce, Science & Technology Committee Subcommittee on Aviation passed a modified amendment to the Aviation Security Act (S-2949) that keeps restrictions on stadium overflights intact for six months without waivers. The original amendment offered by John Breaux (D-LA) on September 19 called for enforcement of FAA NOTAM 1/3353, which prohibits flights within 3 nautical miles/3,000 feet AGL of large open-air assemblies and major sporting events; and FAA NOTAM 2/9583 which eliminates all waivers to 1/3353 for one year. The amendment was modified to six months, enforced at events with more than 30,000 attendees on weekends only.

EAA aggressively opposes this amendment on several fronts:

Such legislation would doom the already precarious banner towing industry.

Pilots flying cross-country must remain 3 miles clear of major open air assemblies and sporting events including collegiate events, without navigable reference for identifying the location of these facilities.

Equally as important, pilots have no practical means of determining when events are actually scheduled to take place.

There has never been a satisfactory definition of what constitutes a major sporting event or open-air assembly, leaving the matter entirely to interpretation.

The pop-up TFRs around these events randomly shut down general aviation airports within three miles of such events across the country.

The peak period for general aviation flight activity is during weekends, at which times many collegiate and professional sporting events occur.

A pilot may not be not aware of violating an airspace restriction until the stadium at issue passes under the wing of the airplane.


-----

This admendment should and will be opposed by pilots thoughout the USA. All events should be indvidually evaluated and NOTAMed.

Contact your state senators and make sure that this admendments dies.

 

[ShawnC]

Seems that AOPA might be jumping on this (not a member)

Its even more important now, it seems that the TSA is letting major league sports win.

------------------------------------------------------
ACCESS TO RESTRICTED AIRSPACE OVER SPORTING EVENTS DURING HOMELAND SECURITY THREAT LEVEL ORANGE

On September 11, 2002, all waivers issued to aircraft operators for access to restricted airspace over sporting events were canceled after the President approved moving the Homeland Security Advisory System's Threat Condition from Level YELLOW (Significant Risk of Terrorist Attacks) to Level ORANGE (High Risk of Terrorist Attacks).

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) continue to receive requests to authorize flights into restricted airspace over sporting events. While the Homeland Security Advisory System's Threat Condition remains at ORANGE, FAA and TSA will only allow the following flights access to restricted airspace over sporting events:

Department of Defense, law enforcement, and aeromedical flights if they are in contact with and under the control of FAA Air Traffic Control
Flights that are determined by TSA to be essential to the safe operation of the sporting event
Flights authorized by FAA Air Traffic for operational purposes
No flights will be authorized for the purpose of transporting persons to and from the event sites.

 

[Rush Limbaugh]

I may get flamed for this but I'm going to say it anyway.

It seems to me that more and more Americans are shedding a tear over the Star Spangled Banner because of the increased patriotism but when it comes to making the sacrifices to make our land safer, nobody wants to be the one to actually do the sacrificing. Raghead Americans get offended by being "profiled" on airliners and now pilots are going to be whining that they have to stay 3 miles from a stadium full of people. Who cares, it's 3 miles and what kind of pilot can't see a stadium that will hold 30,000 people until it is under his wing. These pilots are flying 172's, not SR-71's so it's not like the terrain beneath them is a blur.

AOPA and EAA need to get a grip on the fact that we now live in a different world and the little empires that they think they are running needs to change to fit. I don't think these restrictions will help anything either but I also don't think they are going to hurt anything except get a few low SA Cessna pilots violated.

Rush out

 

[ShawnC]

You don't even get why I care. Its not because I want to fly within 3 miles of a stadium, its because its going to be a law, a permenat area where you can't fly.

Heck in a few years if we let them pass this in silence it might be prohibited to fly below 5,000' AGL if not for the purposes for landing and taking off.

Also you are playing to the beliefs of the public that GA is a threat. Next time something like this comes up people will say "GA is so much of a theart that they had to pass a law about it."

Rush, its people like that don't care, and let the world pass them by and legislate you out of exsistance.

 

[SaabStory]

I'm pissed too...they say I can't ride my horse down the freeway & carry my gun into a saloon anymore! The times they are achangin'. I say it's about time, get with reality & deal with it. I am contacting my representative too...sorry.

 

[stardog]

I'm contacting mine as well.

 

[ShawnC]

With us or against us... at least you are taking an active role in your government.

 

[ShawnC]

Good news, for me at least. The bill (yes the entire bill thanks to this one little admendment) has been stalled in the Senate, and in the house the Representives are starting to speak up about not allowing to come though on their side.

 

[310]

Don't you boneheads that support this stupid law understand that by accepting useless laws like this, the very ones that attacked us win by changing us. The people in the stadiums are no safer due to this law.

 

[willi7]

I agree, this is just more of our tax dollars flushed down the toilet.... Just like fedral employment of the same screeners that legaly let the hijackers on the planes... Or fedral employees that let these people in the country to begin with... Won't do anything about that, but they are going to stop that canvas tripacer from destroying the rose bowl... Maybe they can screen great grandma edna 95 of alabama for weapons at the airports some more, that will help to.....Give me a break!!! This is just another political vote collecting tactic to make joe and jane blow on the street think these guys are protecting them......

 

[A Squared]

Don't you boneheads that support this stupid law understand that by accepting useless laws like this, the very ones that attacked us win by changing us. The people in the stadiums are no safer due to this law.

Yeah, Rush Limbaugh, SAAB story, et al are just unwitting force multipliers for the terrorists.

There's a fundamental difference between a law which prohibits riding a horse down the freeway, and a law which prohibits flying within 3 miles/3000 feet of a stadium......the horse law actually provides a measure of safety.

In the unlikely event that a ga aircraft was used in an attack on a stadium ...... how long do you think it would take to fly from outside the TFR to the stadium, in a 172? in a Aztec? in a King Air? some where between 50 seconds to 90 seconds. ummm yeah, that's plenty of time to alert the authorities, launch fighters and intercept the bad guys.

Folks this is useless, pointless legislation for the sake of legislation.

regards

 

[willi7]

Your right on A Squared!! That 210 that overflew the whitehouse was six miles past it before they intercepted him.. That 3 mile buffer sure makes me feel safe........ Open your eyes rush and saab your pilots, how is this law going protect anyone but your senators job....

 

[TwinTails]

I agree completely. I can't even fathom how any fellow American pilot can agree with such nonsense. The lovely thing about GA in the USA is the freedome to fly whatever machine we want to, whenever and wherever we'd like. (Within the conservative guidelines already established of course) This would be just one more step in the direction of a spineless, overly controlled society.

 

[Tri-holer]

It certainly is true that even the lowly 172 can fly 3 miles in 90 seconds and if passing by the stadium is basically uninterceptable. A Ryder truck packed with 5000 pounds of TNT could also get to the stadium in a very short time. And a couple of suicidal terrorist could at least get to the stadium doors with a cooler nuke.

The only solution is to ground all airplanes whenever any event with more than 200 people is scheduled. And to shutdown all highways and roads within 20 miles of the event.

Oops, forgot about the cooler nuke. Guess the real solution is to ban any event where more than 200 people are gathered. Let's not give them the opportunity to ever do something like this again.

In fact lets tear down buildings that hold more than 200 people since that is nothing more than a target. Let's just stay inside, lock our doors and windows and hope that the boogyman doesn't get us.

Come on - get real. I am all for common sensical legislation that will actually do something. Not for band-aids that are worthless and overly restrictive. Just like strip-searching little old ladies while letting youthful Middle-Eastern men get by (to avoid offending them by 'profiling'). Why can't we interject some common sense into the equation? Just my $.04 (inflation).

 

[flywithastick]

A couple of thoughts on this issue:

It's easier to make blanket decisions than to think and evaluate each instance (laziness at the expense of our liberties).

IMVHO, someone's greasing the skids most likely with the honorable senator from LA involved.

I thought we'd dropped to threat level yellow or similar recently? Where's the justification (back to reason one, laziness)

Based on what I've seen at college games, the Ryder truck would get a police escort to the parking area at the base of the stadium just by saying he was carrying chairs for the rich old alums, football gear for the visitors, etc. Airplanes are no greater threat than other sources of danger.

This is incrementalism. one step at a time they're clamping down on aviation, GA in particular. Why?! Two reasons the govt and complacent Americans go along with this:

1. We Americans have "too much personal freedom", Bill Clinton, 1994. An awfull lot of the elites and authoritarians in this country believe this wholeheartedly.

2. The idiots in fed govt get hammered more when the screw up and allow enemy agents/terrorists into our country to kill citizens than when they take away our rights and freedoms. They're just responding to the greater threat to their jobs.

If you fly GA, you need to quit skating along and join the AOPA. I believe it's about $39/yr last I renewed. It's well worth the minimal annual payment to help support the system that many of us enjoy.

GA pilots shouldn't be so suprised to hear that the 121 & 135 bus drivers and their employers so willing to limit GA's freedoms & access to the system. It's to their advantage financially to have us out of their airspace. So don't be so suprised to hear them agreeing with the increased limitations on us.

Same for the military. I'm convinced they'd just as soon ground us all and chop up our planes. They'd have an easier job of patrolling the skies and protecting the country. But that goes back to reason one above - laziness at the expense of our liberties.

There are exceptions, though. Some of them remember their roots or enjoy flying little planes for the sake of it. But many just see it as a job, with no connection to grassroots aviation. Just a fact.

Now, if you care about GA, go join the AOPA!! and call your reps and senators. 202-224-3121 for the Congressional switchboard. www.congress.com to find your reps names, email and other info. www.senate.com for senators.

happy flying, while you still can!

 

[chawbein]

AOPA

I hear people rip on "special interests" all the time. Guess what, AOPA, labor unions, churches, and just about every other group of people is a "special interest". Special Interest Groups are how the people of this country get their views heard.

Enough incoherant rambling.... Go Joing AOPA, it's a good deal. It costs you $40, you get a few discounts, maybe a "gift" (I got an AOPA hat with no button on the top), and you get a subscription to a top notch magazine. The same thing goes for EAA, although I'm not a member and don't really know what they offer. If you participate in GA, it is your duty to be a part of these organizations so that the GA collective voice is heard. You'll only benefit and your fellow aviators will benefit.

And no I don't work for AOPA!!

 

[ShawnC]

EAA/IAC member here.

The EAA is more of a club like orginization (it revolves locally around the local chapters), it harbors more of a friendship get the commiunty involved type of orginization. I think the best part about the EAA is the youth involvement with the Young Eagle flights, its those little things that get kids intrested and bring more new pilots into the fold.

AOPA does alot of that but they are more like a lobby group though.

At least thats the impressions that I get from each. I am thinking about joining AOPA when I actually have some money to spare.

 

[GEUAviator]

Glendale Airport and Cardinals Stadium

How's this for crappy:

The AZ cardinals stadium was finally approved to be built nearby Glendale Muni (GEU) approximately 6 nm away. This will be in addition to the Phoenix Coyotes Stadium approximately 5 nm away.

While they do not infringe upon the actual airspace, they will definitely infringe upon the routes being flown into Glendale.

Glendale airport has been there for many years and most Glendale pilots don't have a problem with the stadiums/arenas. Heck, it could mean more business! But this law, assuming it's passed, could sour that relationship.

I understand both venues (Coyotes and Cardnials) will have roofs, but doesn't "major sporting event" mean just that?

Any Valey of the Sun pilots out there who know anything about this issue?

Incidentally, I now go by the name GEUAviator instead of PHXAviator. For some reason, flightinfo.com would not let me sign in under PHXAviator! That's okay. I do more flying out of Glendale than I do Phoenix.

Take Care,
GEUAviator

 

[TXCAP4228]

Rush Limbaugh, you ought to be ashamed

Rush Limbaugh says:

I may get flamed for this but I'm going to say it anyway.

Well, at least you're expecting it.


310 says:

Don't you boneheads that support this stupid law understand that by accepting useless laws like this, the very ones that attacked us win by changing us. The people in the stadiums are no safer due to this law.

310, you knocked this one out of the park! Right on.


Rush Limbaugh says:

I don't think these restrictions will help anything either but I also don't think they are going to hurt anything except get a few low SA Cessna pilots violated.

Rush Limbaugh:

1) YOU ARE LETTING THE TERRORISTS WIN.

2) By making the statement that it doesn't matter if the restrictions actually work you have opened the door to draconian (maybe I should use smaller words for you, draconian means oppressive) restrictions.

3) By saying that only small airplanes will be affected and that this is ok with you, you are willingly giving up your freedom. Listen pal, you're in the wrong country. If your freedom is not important to you, move to someplace where you won't get any. Don't infringe on mine.

4) I am stunned to see your screen name attached to that post - you ought to be ashamed. You obviously don't get it.

What you said was exactly what the terrorists wanted. That scares me. But what scares me worse is that you either don't realize it or don't care.

If you care to post a reply to this I'd be happy to hear you attempt justify what you said. You're not just giving up your freedom, you're giving up mine and I have a serious problem with that.

These TFR's go way too far and are being proposed by mindless people. Somebody wake me up, I can't believe that Americans are such freaking sheep!

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Hey GEU, I think it should be OK for you to fly over the Cardinals stadium since I doubt they'll qualify as a Major sporting event
4-12 forever! I liked them since they were in St. Louis. Nice thing about being a Cardinal football fan is you remember EVERY win over the last 20 years and the merchandise is already 1/2 half off before the season even begins!
To TXCAP, Mr. El Rushbo is absolutely correct by allowing more government control we forfeit more of our freedoms...all for the sake of the children!