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VA Speed Question

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Va - the calibrated design maneuvering airspeed, which is the maximum speed at which the limit load can be imposed (either by GUSTS or full deflection of the control surfaces) without causing structural damage.

- taken from the ATP oral guide book. So the bowling / tennis ball analogy is also correct.:D
 
Avbug

It Was called a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Kevdog

No, it really isn't. Gust factors are mathmatical equations used to determine air loads and design limitations. When we speak of gust factors, we don't speak of gusts of wind, per se, but loading values on the aircraft.

The bowling ball analogy stipulates that a heavy object is harder to move than a small object. Compared to stall speed and angle of attack, this is not a good example.

The only issue with maneuvering speed is that design limits will not be exceeded under a certain load. Full application of control input equates to a certain gust value, to which end airspeed limits are established to ensure that a given margin between stall speed and Va exists.

The aircraft will resist displacement at a higher speed, just as a bowling ball in motion resists displacement by an outside force more than a tennis ball might. However, the bowling ball cannot stall, and that concept has nothing to do with the speed at which the airplane stalls. At a heavier weight, the wing is already flying at a greater angle of attack for any given weight or airspeed. As the wing is flying at a higher angle of attack for a given airspeed, it's closer to a stall. In other words, it will stall at a higher speed.

Having nothing to do with displacement, given a margin above the stall speed, an increase in stall speed equates to an increase in the maneuvering speed. The aircraft may be operated at a higher speed, and exposed to potentially higher loads, because it has a higher stall speed, and will stall sooner than a lighter aircraft. It has nothing to do with being displaced by gusts (or the resistance thereto), but with load factors imposed by gusting moments on the structure. The only issue at stake is that the aircraft stalls sooner, not that it can take a greater gust load. The maximum load factor remains constant, the margin relatively constant, but the stall speed increases, and therefore the maneuvering speed does, too.

The ATP study guide is about as far from an authoritative source as one can get, but for these purposes, it will suffice.

You may also reference:

FAA H-8083-3 Airplane Flying Handbook, Chapter 5:
The design maneuvering speed is the maximum speed at which the airplane can be stalled or full available aerodynamic control will not exceed the airplane’s limit load factor.


AC 61-23 Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, Chapter 1:
The maximum speed at which an airplane can be safely stalled is the design maneuvering speed. The design maneuvering speed is a valuable reference point for the pilot. When operating below this speed, a damaging positive flight load should not be produced because the airplane should stall before the load becomes excessive. Any combination of flight control usage, including full deflection of the controls, or gust loads created by turbulence should not create an excessive air load if the airplane is operated below maneuvering speed.

Design maneuvering speed can be found in the Pilot’s Operating Handbook or on a placard within the cockpit. It can also be determined by multiplying the normal unaccelerated stall speed by the square root of the limit load factor. A rule of thumb that can be used to determine the maneuvering speed is approximately 1.7 times the normal stalling speed.

The amount of excess load that can be imposed on the wing depends on how fast the airplane is flying. At slow speeds, the maximum available lifting force of the wing is only slightly greater than the amount necessary to support the weight of the airplane. Consequently, the load factor should not become excessive even if the controls are moved abruptly or the airplane encounters severe gusts, as previously stated. The reason for this is that the airplane will stall before the load can become excessive. However, at high speeds, the lifting capacity of the wing is so great that a sudden movement of the elevator controls or a strong gust may increase the load factor beyond safe limits.

"Because of this relationship between speed and safety, certain “maximum” speeds have been established. Each airplane is restricted in the speed at which it can safely execute maneuvers, withstand abrupt application of the controls, or fly in rough air. This speed is referred to as the design maneuvering speed, which was discussed previously.

Summarizing, at speeds below design maneuvering speed, the airplane should stall before the load factor can become excessive. At speeds above maneuvering speed, the limit load factor for which an airplane is stressed can be exceeded by abrupt or excessive application of the controls or by strong turbulence
 
Re: Mathmatical Va

Dutch said:
OK, I learned the angle of attack method of explaining Va but the standards department at my university doesn't like that method. Here's an alternate method.

We all know the lift formula, right?
The individual components are as follows;
Co-efficient of lift
1/2 Rho
Velocity Squared
Surface area (lifting area)

We also need to know that Load Factor is Lift divided by weight.

We're gonna use some rounded numbers to make this easier to compute.

Lets say we are operating an aircraft with a load limit factor of 4 (i.e. we can pull 4 positive g's). This aircraft also has a max gross weight of 2,500# and a corresponding Va of 100 knots.

In this situation our maximum lift can be computed by multiplying load factor and aircraft weight.

2,500# x 4 = 10,000#

or when the formula is moved around...

4 = 10,000# / 2,500#


Now, lets lower the aircraft weight down to 2,000#. The load limit stays the same and assume the same airfoil, airspeed, air density (the amount of lift being produced is the same).

10,000# (lift created) / 2,000# (aircraft weight) = 5

5 g's is more than the limit of 4 and we just damaged the aircraft. We need to lower the lift created to 8,000# in order to prevent damaging the aircraft. The only parameter in the lift equation that we can easily change is airspeed...we have to slow to the lower Va to prevent damaging the aircraft.

Dutch


super!! math does not lie!!
 
Avbug,

LOL, you haven't memorized your ATP oral guide book?

You are right about Va and stall speed, etc. but I was only trying to create a different way of looking at it to simplify remembering.

Maybe you can help me, this thread made me wonder what the Va is for the 727 since we never learned it in groundschool or is it published in any of our manuals.

I couldn't imagine a full deflection of any flight control while airborne at any speed or weight.

The only thing we have to know is turbulent air penetration target airspeed which is .80M or 280 KTS IAS, whichever is lower. 250 KTS below 15,000 at maximum landing weight or less is also acceptable.
 
Determine your stall speed in the specified configuration (empirically if necessary), then multiply that by the square root of the maximum load factor that you are sure will not bend the airplane.

Voila, Va.

At this speed, when you yank back on they yoke, your plane will begin it's accelerated stall at the same moment as you hit the maximum load factor that you decided was safe.
 

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