USFS cancels airtanker contracts

[414Flyer]

This blows bigtime. I have had a fun, but short (since April 17) tanker pilot career.

U.S.D.A. FOREST SERVICE AND DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR AGENCIES CANCEL LARGE AIRTANKER CONTRACT

BOISE, IDAHO, MAY 10, 2004 – The U.S.D.A. Forest Service and the Department of the Interior announced today that they are terminating the contract for 33 large airtankers due to concerns over the airworthiness of the aircraft and public safety. The large fixed-wing airtankers were used in wildland firefighting primarily for initial attack and structure protection support.

The decision comes in response to findings and recommendations contained in the April 23, 2004, National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) report on three previous airtanker accidents. One critical NTSB finding states “it was apparent that no effective mechanism currently exists to ensure the continuing airworthiness of these firefighting aircraft.” The NTSB report also concluded that the Forest Service and the Department of the Interior were responsible for ensuring the safety of firefighting aircraft. Private companies operate the 33 airtankers under a contract with the federal agencies during the fire season.

Since most of the large airtankers were designed and used for military operations before their acquisition by contract companies, the NTSB report also indicated that a complete history of maintenance and inspection records are not available for many of them. This lack of documentation makes it impossible to guarantee airworthiness, according to the NTSB. The average age of the large airtankers is 48 years with some more than 60 years old.

“Safety is a core value of the firefighting community and it is non-negotiable,” said Forest Service Chief Dale Bosworth. “To continue to use these contract large airtankers when no mechanism exists to guarantee their airworthiness presents an unacceptable level of risk to the aviators, the firefighters on the ground and the communities we serve.”

“We take the findings and recommendations made by NTSB very seriously.” said Director Clarke, “Chief Bosworth and I are committed to working with other federal agencies, our state partners, Congress, industry, and the public to understand and adjust to this change while continuing to provide safe and effective fire management and suppression."

The large airtankers are one of many tools that firefighters use, but wildland fires are managed and suppressed on the ground, not from the air. During any year, thousands of wildland fires are suppressed on initial attack without the benefit of air support.

The agencies developed a strategy for the 2004 firefighting season to supplement aerial resources with other available aircraft such as large helicopters and helitankers, single engine airtankers (SEATS), and military C-130 aircraft equipped with the Modular Airborne Firefighting System (MAFFS). A strategy for long-term aviation asset management and acquisitions of newer aircraft based on available funding will be developed by the leadership of the Forest Service and the DOI agencies.

“Clearly the days of operating older aircraft of unknown airworthiness for firefighting operations are over,” said Chief Bosworth. “We are grateful to the pilots, crews, and operators of these aircraft, who have dedicated themselves to firefighting efforts over the decades. We have the greatest fire management and suppression program in the world, and we will continue to protect lives, property and our nation’s natural resources.”

For further information, contact Rose Davis, Forest Service Fire and Aviation Management Public Affairs at (208) 387-5437

 

[logolight]

No joke, I read in a magazine recently they are looking into using the Boeing 747 as a fire bomber. The article mentioned that the drop time would be between 8 and 15 seconds. Maybe you could get into that.

 

[Catbird]

I guess someone didn't bring a large enough bag of money to the private meeting with the FatCats with the USFS. I hope the next wildfire sweeps through their part of the universe. Handing this to the USAF is SNAFU. by the time the "mission" is formulated, planned, prebriefed, reviewed, presubmitted, submitted, prebriefed, briefed, .............................,..............,...........,.......,and flown the fire will be gone,kaput,nada. The cost of the new fire fighting plan will be exponential compared to the past. The sad part is that the protection and execution will be dismal, but of course you won't know it unless your house and land is burnt to a crisp. Prepare yourself for the term mission logistical complications, or mission objective parameter constraints. The BullSh#t will be classic.

 

[Cat Driver]

The world is truly going insane.

Aerial attack on fires is for the protection of the public and by that very definition should be exempt from restrictive rules and policies that are in place for public transportation.

However we are once again the victims of knee jerk reaction by bureaucrats that couldn't find their a$$es with a set of moose antlers.

Thankfully I had the privelage of flying air tankers back in an era when initial attack was the object of the exercise and we were quite effective in fire suppression using that model of thinking.

I feel very sad for all my colleauges who will be out of work for no real concrete reason.

Cat Driver:

 

[avbug]

Hey...it's an election year.

 

[mar]

Wax and wane

Yup. We should sh!tcan plans to return to the moon and think about people and property instead.

Where are our priorities?

 

[sqwkvfr]

How's this for sake of discussion?....If that video hadn't been taken of the airtaker folding up after a drop would this have happened?

Or has this been coming for some time?

 

[sqwkvfr]

Re: Wax and wane

Yup. We should sh!tcan plans to return to the moon and think about people and property instead.

Where are our priorities?

OH, MY GOD!!! I'm actually with you on this one, mar!!

I think that makes TWO!!


Loosing.....power......(cough)...


I......gotta.......go.................

We......shall.....meet.....again.......mar!! You....haven't.....seen.....the........last.....of......sqwkvfr...!!!

 

[mar]

They put a man on the moon...

...but our literacy rates are almost third world.

Oops.

Did I cross a line?

Listen man, you and I may have got off to a bad start. Here's a little primer on 'mar': I'm *for* whatever is good for the American citizen.

Schools.
Law enforcement.
Health care.
And protection from Mother Nature (or really dumb campers).

That's about all the energy I have. It seems I'm feeling a little weak as well.

 

[rchcfi]

414 Flyer.....Dude, I feel for you.

I just completed my OAS ride today for Air Tactical and got back home to read this article. And of course my first thought was, HUH? So because the USFS can't handle being blamed for something, they just yank the well being of hundreds of aviators out from under them by grounding the fleet.

And then I thought my job was in jeopardy until I read the Q&A on their website. But as we all know, nothing is set in stone - EVER.

I'm just waiting for the day that I'm circling over a multi-thousand acre fire watching those SEATs try to do the job of just one heavy tanker.

The USFS should have, at the very least, given all the contractors a 1 year notice to be able to upgrade their fleets, etc. But just to say, "OK you'r contract is cancelled immediately" is stupid!

Chin Up 414

 

[enigma]

The agencies developed a strategy for the 2004 firefighting season to supplement aerial resources with other available aircraft such as large helicopters and helitankers, single engine airtankers (SEATS), and military C-130 aircraft equipped with the Modular Airborne Firefighting System (MAFFS). A strategy for long-term aviation asset management and acquisitions of newer aircraft based on available funding will be developed by the leadership of the Forest Service and the DOI agencies.

I heard some enviro-weenie quoted today on the radio news, and he stated that we were entering a new era, an era in which we no longer fought fires, we just managed them. He sounded like the kind of guy who would rather have mountain lions in his neighborhood than he would have kids.

I imagine that there will be more water bomber jobs next year than yesterday. You see, the public will cry out for action after the next big southern California fire and the powers that be will be forced to buy more SEATS. I don't know, but I'll guess that it takes a bunch of SEATS to replace one old tanker. More SEATS, more pilots. Maybe this could be a good thing............... for everybody but the poor souls who lose their house in the next fire.

enigma

 

[mar]

enviro-weenie

He sounded like the kind of guy who would rather have mountain lions in his neighborhood than he would have kids.

Sounds like paradise to me.

 

[Duke Elegant]

READY!

FIRE!

AIM ..................

How long have they been thinking like this?

 

[LearLove]

You guys will be back to work after the first fire rips thru southern Cal or somewhere like that and burns down thousands of yupee homes.

 

[avbug]

Rchcfi,

You're apparently not familiar with SEAT ops. Last summer I lapped heavy tankers on each fire I worked, flying a turbine dromader SEAT (Type IV tanker), and put more retardant on the fire. Go figure. Type IV tankers are painted as being a smaller lesser tanker, often considered different than other tankers because they're referred to as SEATs instead of what they are...just another air tanker.

Having flown large airtankers and SEATs, I can appreciate that both have unique attributes to add. However, don't think that a SEAT can't have a large impact on a fire. It can; more than you may think. It's a valueable resource. I flew against fast moving grass and brush fires, PJ fires, structure protection and urban interface, and timber fires in the forest last year, in the Dromader, and got high marks by ground troops and ATGS on every drop. Don't be too quick to judge the SEAT capabilities until you have some fire experience...get some from a groundpounder's point of view and you may change your thinking.

Unfortunately, word from the top is that no more SEATs will be put on, and no more SEAT pilots qualified. With the changes that took place this year for carding, there is no way that anyone can get carded into a SEAT now anyway; they've already missed all the schools and classes.

SEATs may be gone within two years, too. There's likely a big change coming in that avenue, eliminating any leased airplanes, and only permitting owners to contract a SEAT. That means that many of the operators will be out.

It's mindboggling that after what the public saw last fall in southern California, the politicos in the USFS and DOI are willing to make a move like this. Especially after all the heavy operators have completed all the mandated improvements and changes, and spent a small fortune gearing up for the season (which, like all recent seasons, promises to be a full, long one). Operators have shelled out all the training expenses for the year, and are not going to go bankrupt for their trouble. Up until yesterday, tankers were actively working fires in Arizona and California.

 

[strega7]

Does anyone know if this includes Aero Union's P-3s? I'll know CDF will probably use some of them this summer, but all 8? I guess its time to head over seas and try and make some money. Can't image all that hardware sitting idle in CIC for the summer.

Fly Safe.

 

[414Flyer]

I was one of those flying in SoCal last week, in tanker 65. We flew over 30 hours in 6 days on those fires. I had a blast with it and was having the time of my life.

And yes, Aero Union is not flying either. The cancellation affected all 33 large air tankers.

I cant even count the number of ways this decision is idiotic.

 

[avbug]

CDF is a state agency, whereas the large air tanker program is a federal program. Most all heavy tanker contracts were federal. CDF could utilize a federal tanker on a state fire by making a request through the National Interagency Fire Center, who would then coordinate with the contracting agency for the federal tanker.

However, all the large federal air tanker contracts have been stopped. That means there are no federal tankers for CDF to use. Without a contract, even a CWN (call when needed) to put a federal tanker in the field, it's a boat anchor waiting to collect dust in a museum.

As for exporting the federal tankers outside the US, it's a major hassle, and with the fallout surrounding the current state of affairs, don't look to see much cross border work from this side (US) going elsewhere. If this isn't straightened out pronto, then operators will probably seek ways to start selling their aircrft or services abroad. Time will tell.

Presently CDF will continue with the S-2's and S-2T's. However due to some recent incidents in their air attack side of the house (engine failures and control failures) in the OV-10 program, don't be surprised to see some changes in the pike there, too.

Federal tanker pilots killed in the line of duty are still contracted pilots, and as such receive no death benifits. Getting life insurance when flying tankers is possible, but not easy, and very expensive. Few tanker pilots carry life insurance (myself included), due to the cost.

Presently legislation known as the PSOB (public safety officers death benifits) is being pushed through congress by Barbara Cubin. It's getting close to being reality. There is a lot of justified speculation that this surprise change of events with cancelled contracts seems to be an amazing coincidence. What timing.

A certain individual came aboard in the national program just a few years ago, who has a certain agenda to see the fire programs turned over to the more expensive and less efficient military modular airborne firefighting system. In the space of a few years, wranging politics hot and heavy, he's on the verge of getting what he set out for.

 

[strega7]

I flew fire patrol and CWN air attack for three years in Northern California. None of the CDF captains that I flew with liked the MAFS. All they said it was good for was marking the fire for the real tankers. I can't fathom this cancelation of contracts. I really hope that in the height of this fire season with 20,000+ acre fires burning and the media on scene, Aero Union gets FAA permision for a "test" flight and flys a couple of P-3's near the fire. Let the public see perfectly good aircraft not being used, houses burning, and gov't supidity at its finest. As soon as the "correct" persons house goes up, the tankers will get an emergency "recall". I pray for all the airtanker company employees that were bent over by this and hope they can find some state, private, or foreign contracts.

Fly Safe.

 

[avbug]

The tankers have not been grounded. They do not need permission to fly. Contracts have been cancelled. Big difference, there.

Again, CDF is a state agency, very different from federally contracted tankers.

There's nothing to "emergency recall;" The program has been ended by cancelling the contract. If there is no contract, there is nothing to "recall."

MAFFS limitations are two-fold. One is that the modular unit used for a Modular Airborne FireFighting System has one speed; all or nothing. Variable coverage is not possible, nor is splitting the load.

Tanker pilots live in the industry; it's a way of life. Pilots who do it as an extra mission such as a modular system in addition to other duties are unable, compete in this respect, and will never have the same level of fire experience that a dedicated tanekr pilot will have.

MAFFS is far from the highest priority mission assigned the hercs that perform it. Other duties take priority, and when the herc gets pulled out to deliver troops or cargo at some distant location, then who covers the assignment while it's gone?