use of check lists

[Bernoulli]

This thread is for all the pilots who fly professionally. My question is in regards to check lists. Do you simply memorize a flow for each phase of flight or do you use a check list? If you could, also explain how you use the check list... IE do you double check the list after a flow etc... I know the pilots at my part 121 job always have their check lists out. I also use a check list for ground operations but in flight I use a memorized flow so I keep my eyes outside the cockpitt. I know that following the check list verbatum can burn up a lot of time yet this is how I have been doing it. How do you pros do it?
The reason I ask is because the other day I was at a class D airport that had a couple of small carriers that were shuttling passengers to nearby locations. Both carriers were operating twin piston aircraft with one pilot. In both cases, I saw the pilot load the passengers on the plane and then jump in the cockpit... instantly the plane was turned on and the pilot began taxiing to the runway. I never saw either pilot use a check list. It was as if they were driving a car. I don't think they even did a run up because they were airborn within a couple of minutes from loading the passengers. Is this a common practice for small carriers?

 

[Toy Soldier]

For me, it depends on the plane that I am flying. Here are my techniques:

1. In planes that I don't fly that often, I almost always follow the checklist verbatum, within reason. I will typically assign the checklist part to my co-pilot or passenger.

2. In the planes that I fly daily, I use the flow system followed by the checklist when time allows. I will never fumble with a checklist during critical phases of flight. However, I usually review the
checklist before heading out - as a memory aid.

3. I do the flow checks at EACH phase of flight as well: Start, taxiing, takeoff, climbout, cruise (several times), whenever something changes, descent, approach phase, pre-landing, after landing and shutdown.

I find that I do more checks using the flow system than most folks do when using the checklist ONLY method. My eyes are always wandering around the cockpit checking things.

I find that the "checklist" folks (no flow pattern) ONLY tend to check items in the cockpit when the checklist calls for it. The "flow folks" are always touching (verifying) and looking at things...

 

[great cornholio]

Well as far as checkists in the 121 realm goes we usually do the flow then back it up with the checklist and since its a 2 person crew it is the good ol command and response method. Like F/O says Parking Brake Capt replies Set, etc. Im not sure how the single pilot air carrier does it cause Ive never flown for one so Im not gonna try to guess. But for the not doing a runup generally runups are only done before the first flight of the day unless you suspect a problem then you would do another one. When I was towing gliders I would only do a runup before the first tow, but if i suspected a problem like a fouled spark plug then I would do a quick runup to see if I had a problem or not. Anyways hope this answers your questions.

 

[bobbysamd]

Checklists and flows

I remember the first time that I flew with a "real" professional pilot that I was horrified. He did not use a checklist at all! He pointed to his head and said his checklist was "up here."

I then went to work for Riddle and heard the concept of "flows" for the first time. I learned what flows were all about, of course, as part of my standardization. I then realized that the aforementioned professional pilot was using a flow in his King Air.

ERAU was big on flows and flow checks in all three aircraft we used, 172s, Seminoles, and 182s. Flows were pushed hard. Our method was to use flows and back-up with the checklist. Seminoles were an especially good cockpit to flow because of how the fuel selectors, power quadrant, panel, etc., were configured. At first I didn't understand all the Riddle hoopla about flows, but realized later that it was really good training - very unlike my Part 61 training. I learned later that the flows Riddle used were very similar to Horizon Airlines procedures.

I went on to FlightSafety, where Seminoles were used. I do not recall flows being taught at FSI. Nor at MAPD, which now seems strange.

Flows are great procedures. Use them. Back up with the checklist, as needed.

 

[Bernoulli]

Re: Checklists and flows

I remember the first time that I flew with a "real" professional pilot that I was horrified. He did not use a checklist at all! He pointed to his head and said his checklist was "up here."

I then went to work for Riddle and heard the concept of "flows" for the first time. I learned what flows were all about, of course, as part of my standardization. I then realized that the aforementioned professional pilot was using a flow in his King Air.

ERAU was big on flows and flow checks in all three aircraft we used, 172s, Seminoles, and 182s. Flows were pushed hard. Our method was to use flows and back-up with the checklist. Seminoles were an especially good cockpit to flow because of how the fuel selectors, power quadrant, panel, etc., were configured. At first I didn't understand all the Riddle hoopla about flows, but realized later that it was really good training - very unlike my Part 61 training. I learned later that the flows Riddle used were very similar to Horizon Airlines procedures.

I went on to FlightSafety, where Seminoles were used. I do not recall flows being taught at FSI. Nor at MAPD, which now seems strange.

Flows are great procedures. Use them. Back up with the checklist, as needed.

 

[Bernoulli]

So are flows like the before landing check GUMPS ? Do all flows have an acronym or are they like the flow of doing a pre flight?

 

[Typhoon1244]

So are flows like the before landing check GUMPS? Do all flows have an acronym or are they like the flow of doing a pre flight?

Our "Cockpit Check" flow for the first flight of the day has about thirty items on it...that'd be a hellova acronym!

 

[2000flyer]

As flightdecks become even more advanced, the use of checklists becomes mandatory. For example, on newer corporate aircraft that will be using advanced avionics such as the Epic system from Honeywell (and varients for Dassault and Gulfstream), the checklist will appear on a screen. I can't speak for Gulfstream, but it is my understanding with the EASy system on Falcons, the checklist (read computer) must see a corresponding action before that checklist item can be "checked" and advanced to the next item. I believe it is this way on the B777 as well.

While flows are great, IMHO, they are more meant for the 121 side of our profession, in other words, to the pilot who flys much more than their 91/135 counterpart. In many 91 flight departments, pilot's may only fly 20-50 hours (average) per month and many may fly more than one aircraft type. Trying to memorize a checklist defeats it's entire purpose. While time is involved in reading and responding to checklist items, they are there for a reason. Beyond their purest form, a SAFETY item, why not use every means available to you? Imagine the NTSB listening to the CVR post accident and never hearing a checklist being read. Ouch!

Even down to the GA side, how many Bonanzas, Arrows and the like have you seen land gear up? A simple checklist would have prevented many of those accidents, again in my humble opinion. Sure, do the GUMP check or whatever you were taught, but that simple piece of paper you carry in your airplane is there to back you up.

The only items meant for memorization on a checklist are those critical to dealing with an immediate emergency. Given the fact that many jet aircraft perform on less than all engines also means those memory items to deal with an emergency seldom have to be accomplished RIGHT NOW! Even with an engine fire after takeoff, SOP says you'll continue to fly to a "safe altitude" before executing your memory items. During that time the PM should be getting the checklist ready as well, unless there is some sort of extenuating circumstance requiring their attention elsewhere.

Ok, thats a buck-fifty instead of my usual two cents worth.

Fly safe.

2000Flyer

 

[flx757]

At our airline, as is the case at most 121 operators, most tasks are carried out with the use of flow patterns, and then verified with the use of checklists. Some checklists are the challenge and resonse type, where typically, on the ground, the Capatin initiates the checklist and the FO challenges and the Captain responds.

In flight, the checklists are initiated by the PF, and some are silent while others are challenge and response. It they are the challenge/response type, then typially the PNF challenges, and the PF responds.

Of course, these are general statements, and each commpany has their own SOPs where there may be deviations or differences from these genealities. While it may be very easy to "memorize" a checklist that you do hundreds of times every month, it is still good practice, and required at every airline that I have ever worked for, that you get the checklist out, and actually read from it instead of just reciting the items from memory. (Except, of course, the "memory items" as applicable, on emergency checklists.)

 

[bobbysamd]

Flows v. acronyms

So are flows like the before landing check GUMPS ? Do all flows have an acronym or are they like the flow of doing a pre flight?

More like the flow of doing a pre-flight (which, technically, should be done by checklist with checklist in hand). In a flow, you are touching a switch, or valve or something, and according to mode of flight, you adjust that switch, valve or something as necessary. There may be different flows for different periods or regimes of the flight.

Perhaps a flow could be associated with GUMPS, depending on the layout of the cockpit. But GUMPS is really another form of checklist, like CIGARS, etc.

 

[Rick1128]

IMHO there are too many pilots out there that do not understand the philoshy of the checklist. It is a checklist not a do list. It is there to ensure that all the required items have been done. The system goes much quicker and smoother if it is used as a checklist. Also pilots need to get a handle on the order of importance of things to do. I tend to get upset with my copilot when after takeoff he has his head in the cockpit doing the checklist, instead of out looking for traffic. There is nothing on that particular checklist that will kill you. But another aircraft will.

As the airlines have shown with their "flows", the order that the items are completed is generally not important. On some emergency checklists it is.

One thing I have done for years and continue to do is a configuration check. Just before takeoff and on short final. It is amazing the number of pilots had are absolutely sure they did the checklist and landed without their gear down. It is now a force of habit for me.