USAPA wins appeal!!!!!!

[TWA Dude]

Oh and a few other points to ponder.

Your lecture was irrelevant. What ALPA did or didn't do is irrelevant. Do you even understand what a union's Duty to Fairly Represent means? This is about USAPA. Even if the Nicolau list didn't exist USAPA doesn't have the right to integrate the list to our disadvantage. You can come up with whatever so-called conditions and restrictions or "protections" you want but the courts will know it's the seniority number that counts.

Until Section 22 comes out, and is voted in place, will you be able to see if you have enough merit to file a DFR.

Thank you for restating the obvious.

Will the DFR be successful I guess that's your 2 million dollar bet you'll have to place.

It's your bet too.

My suggestion is, you drop some of your venom and get involved with the process, deal your your legally elected representatives, and ensure your voice is heard as to what your interests are in relation to finally integrating the seniority lists......

Did it and done it. That "tyranny of the majority" thing is kind of hard to get around though.

 

[Crzipilot]

So if the NIC list didn't exist....how would you combine the two lists?

Because at the same time, you can not step on the rights and expectations of the east pilots either......

See a common theme here?

I mean have you really read through the points made in the 9th's decision?!?!?

 

[TWA Dude]

So if the NIC list didn't exist....how would you combine the two lists?

I'd let arbitrators decide.

See a common theme here?

With the Easties, yes. Entitlement.

I mean have you really read through the points made in the 9th's decision?!?!?

Yes. Why do you ask?

 

[Crzipilot]

I ask, because that would negate alot of the points which you are trying to make in your responses here.

Entitlement, I demand the capt seat NOW, no matter where it might be. PHL 767/330 etc etc....ok....entitlement.

the only ENTITLEMENT we have asked for, Is the change to ride the wave of OUR retirements.

Save the "who saved who" crap, because that's all crystal ball, business leverage and maneuvering.

The short upgrades you were experiencing and aircraft deliveries etc etc....were a blip in the course of a long career. A Bigger view of the industry as a whole shows a different story, and as time went on AWA would have followed the industry.....

Either way, You can now read the decision, accept what the judges in a court of law have decided, and become part of the solution and not the problem....

 

[Crzipilot]

I'd let arbitrators decide.

So then you have no opinion of how to fairly integrate two seniority lists of vast disparity of LOS times. Then you really shouldn't be on here arguing, as you should be just as happy to accept what is negotiated into Section 22, when the process with the company, Union, and NMB is completed.

When that section is ratified and voted into a CBA, then you can come on here and claim you have been mistreated. Until then. the 9th has said, Hush....

 

[TWA Dude]

So then you have no opinion of how to fairly integrate two seniority lists of vast disparity of LOS times.

Of course I have an opinion but it's not relevant. More importantly I believe there should be fair process. Negotiation--> Mediation--> Arbitration. That's my opinion that matters.

Then you really shouldn't be on here arguing, as you should be just as happy to accept what is negotiated into Section 22, when the process with the company, Union, and NMB is completed.

????!

When that section is ratified and voted into a CBA, then you can come on here and claim you have been mistreated. Until then. the 9th has said, Hush....

Are you on some kind of mediation that affects your memory? Why do you keep repeating the same thing?

We're not communicating and I think I've found the problem. Please tell me in your own words what a unions Duty to Fairly Represent means. Bonus question: how does DFR differ from "tyranny of the majority"?

 

[Crzipilot]

There ya go..... So unless you have a working crystal ball. You don't know what section 22 is going to entail. And until you do. You haven't been harmed. Next...


As the court recognized, A CBA with NIC installed will most likely NEVER be voted in. In essence denying the union members the oppurtunity to enjoy increased benefits and pay. In leaving the NIC on the shelf, and combining seniority in a different fashion, which in turn, aids the union members in getting better pay and work rules, and possible advancement. How is that harming the union members, whereas being stuck on NIC provides more harm to the union members themselves......


We aren't havng a failure to communicate. Your having a failure to be reasonable....





Duty of fair representation is the legal duty of a union to equally, and in good faith, represent every employee in a bargaining unit, regardless of whether the employee is a union member or not. This legal duty arises out of the exclusive representative status unions hold under the National Labor Relations Act. A breach of the statutory duty of fair representation occurs only when a union's conduct toward a member of the collective bargaining unit is arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith.
The duty of fair representation requires that a union represent all workers equally and without prejudice. A union cannot refuse to represent or improperly represent a worker due to the worker’s age, race, creed, nationality, sex, religion, political beliefs, union status or personality. If a union fails to represent a worker due to prejudice or hostility the union can be held liable. Its purpose is to ensure that the course of action in any grievance case will be determined by the merits of the grievance, and not by the merits of the grievant. The union may refuse to file or process a grievance for any number of reasons so long as they are valid, however it may not arbitrarily refuse to process a meritorious grievance or decline to proceed to arbitration because of hostility to the grievant or irrelevant and ill-motivated reasons

 

[TWA Dude]

There ya go..... So unless you have a working crystal ball. You don't know what section 22 is going to entail. And until you do. You haven't been harmed. Next...

I guess you're right. And until the Sun rises tomorrow we won't know if that really will happen either. But if I were I betting man...

How is that harming the union members, whereas being stuck on NIC provides more harm to the union members themselves......

Are you asking me? That question should be posed to the East. We could've had a new contract in 2007 when the economy was good and the company profitable.

Duty of fair representation is the legal duty of a union to equally...

Wow, you can cut and paste. There's a reason I asked for your own words. You don't seem to understand how USAPA's DFR applies to the former AWA pilots. Seham apparently doesn't either. Oh well, see you in court.

 

[weasel_lips]

The greed on the west side is amazing. You guys wan't it all.

Where do you guys come off thinking all the furloughs should be on the east side only. Your flying was cut the most and now you are doing 20+ % of the east flying (which saved you 20+ % more furloughes ).... not enough for you guys... you want the east to take all the furloughs too. + you want all the upgrades on the east.

Hell, I am surpised you guys arent going to sue for the widebody positions too. why not?

 

[Turtle21]

And what if you lose the LOA 93 arbitration? Hate to break it to you, but that's the far more likely outcome. Will you then feel the need to finally stop being obstructionists and start working with the West pilots instead of against them? Every pilot in this country has a dog in this fight, because your shameful $124/hr top out pay rate on the 737/Airbus is holding all of us back.

Hi PCL. Glad you stopped by. The 9th put to rest any notion that there is an East and West. There is, we. We will vote on a new contract and then anyone that feels slighted can take it to court.

Cheers.

P.S. ALPA was the best habit that I ever kicked.