Usapa has to go.

[cactusboy53]

Absent this DJ move by the company we might possibly be voting on a new contract (containing DOH) in a few months which would be expensive to the company. Yes yes yes I know that you guys will file a DFR II/injunction but you can only do that if we have a new contract remember "ripeness"? The company does not want to pay us one penny more so this DJ is a great delay tactic. Seniority is a section of a contract and sections can be negotiated and when a section is "closed" it can be re-opened during the negotiation process. After all sections are agreed upon and a contract is ratified by the members then it becomes a contract. One section has never nor will ever be a "contract". That being said you may very well prevail in DFR II but as you know that will happen years after a contract containing DOH.

That's funny Chuck. I'm sure Mike is rubbing his little St. Happinin' lucky charm for that to happen. The good news (????) is that the NAC is proposing a contract that is superior to LOA93, BUT drastically INFERIOR to the existing AWA contract. You just can't buy that kind of NAC expertise anywhere....oh, wait you can. It just costs the FT salary of a pilot that was FURLOUGHED at the time of the merger. Brilliant!

This is going to be the most entertaining year at USAPA EVER. I'm stocked up on popcorn and soda. Let the "games" begin.

 

[Tweaker]

Really Parker wants this done??? You are joking right?

Seriously, Mr. Stratton, that belief is as wrongheaded as teh reflexive D voting negroes who believes Owebama has their bestest interests at heart!

 

[MCDU]

Seriously, Mr. Stratton, that belief is as wrongheaded as teh reflexive D voting negroes who believes Owebama has their bestest interests at heart!

Yo Mike,

You gonna vote Andy. He the man. what you think.
m

 

[Hpilot]

So as soon as the nic is implemented (in 4 to 5 years) you are coming to get your wide body captains seat? Thought so.

Don't want your seat, just don't want to be stapled. Oh yeah, I almost forgot..... I DON'T WANT A CONTRACT THAT IS WORSE THAN MY CURRENT ONE!

 

[Hpilot]

Guess I should clarify. I could take a staple, just not under your friggin furloughed pilots that didn't even bring a job to the merger. So staple, yes, double staple, no.

 

[Metrojet]

I'll bet it's sooner than that, Chuck. A lot depends on what Judge Silver has to say, what the company has to say after that, and how much $$$$ it will take the east pilots to swallow an much improved contract with the Nicolau seniority list. Don't like the contract and $$$......Vote NO. The beauty of the contract vote is that you can always tell your co-worker that you voted NO all the way!

I will never be a wide body Captain, and frankly I am much more in favor of sleeping vs. flying in the dark (I guess you shouldn't do both). By the time this boils out, I should have my choice between reserve CA in PHX or lineholder NB in the other bases (IMHO).

So - Let me figure out how you are reserve CA in PHX but would be blockholder NB in CLT - so the Nic gives you super seniority in CLT? I thought you guys keep saying the Nic was fair - if your RELATIVE position in one base should give you the same RELATIVE position in PHX and CLT - how are you a blockholder in one base and just a reserve in your original base?

And don't give me the spin there are more lines vs reserve in CLT than PHX - give me actual numbers and ratio's of lines/reserve lines and positions.

Awaiting your calculations CB

Metrojet

 

[ultrarunner]

Cactus never mentioned CLT.....

 

[cactusboy53]

So - Let me figure out how you are reserve CA in PHX but would be blockholder NB in CLT - so the Nic gives you super seniority in CLT? I thought you guys keep saying the Nic was fair - if your RELATIVE position in one base should give you the same RELATIVE position in PHX and CLT - how are you a blockholder in one base and just a reserve in your original base?

And don't give me the spin there are more lines vs reserve in CLT than PHX - give me actual numbers and ratio's of lines/reserve lines and positions.

Awaiting your calculations CB

Metrojet

Simple, here's how you figure it out: 3 parties agreed to the process. Process complete. All three parties (while some may complain), shake hands and move on. DONE. OVER. END OF STORY. COMPLETED. Just like that. The Nicolau didn't give #518 "super seniority" (that would be the first AWA pilot on the combined seniority list), it gave him an excrement sandwich....BUT we agreed to the process.

I figure in a couple of years my seniority number will allow me to hold a lineholder CA in PHL (most likely), DCA or CLT (less likely). I believe the guys that are near my seniority on the Nic are now bidding NB captains at some bases. Some may even be line holders now.

No spin. Just the agreed upon process and all parties moving on (vs. the larger pilot group attempting to evade the final product of that process by any and all means). Don't worry Metro...everyone gets what a bunch of double dealing USAPIAN's are. We get that none of the USAPAIAN faithful can EVER be held at their word. We get that we will NEVER be able to trust any USAPAIN faithful any further than we can throw them. Everyone else that is watching gets it too. The pariahs of the Commercial Aviation industry.

Don't worry, the end draws near. Judge Silver will make her decision, the company will abide by that decision, USAPA will attempt to appeal to someone for the decision. All the while, there will be east pilots that finally get they have been sold a bag of goods that NEVER could be delivered. They will realize there will be no pot of gold, no 3%, no snap back, no retro, and no improved contract without one that contains the Nicolau.

Delay, delay, delay, delay.......that's all that's been purchased, and at a tremendous cost. Pity.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Absent this DJ move by the company we might possibly be voting on a new contract (containing DOH) in a few months which would be expensive to the company. Yes yes yes I know that you guys will file a DFR II/injunction but you can only do that if we have a new contract remember "ripeness"? The company does not want to pay us one penny more so this DJ is a great delay tactic. Seniority is a section of a contract and sections can be negotiated and when a section is "closed" it can be re-opened during the negotiation process. After all sections are agreed upon and a contract is ratified by the members then it becomes a contract. One section has never nor will ever be a "contract". That being said you may very well prevail in DFR II but as you know that will happen years after a contract containing DOH.

Bull. If that was the case that contract would have been ratified 2 years ago. The seniority integration methodology is what makes a first joint contract very different from subsequent contracts dealing with a combined pilot group. That's why it went through the negotiation/mediation/arbitration protocol and precisely why the arbitration can not be overturned by a majority vote of angry pilots. Silver will explain all that if you ask her.

 

[Metrojet]

Simple, here's how you figure it out: 3 parties agreed to the process. Process complete. All three parties (while some may complain), shake hands and move on. DONE. OVER. END OF STORY. COMPLETED. Just like that. The Nicolau didn't give #518 "super seniority" (that would be the first AWA pilot on the combined seniority list), it gave him an excrement sandwich....BUT we agreed to the process.

I figure in a couple of years my seniority number will allow me to hold a lineholder CA in PHL (most likely), DCA or CLT (less likely). I believe the guys that are near my seniority on the Nic are now bidding NB captains at some bases. Some may even be line holders now.

No spin. Just the agreed upon process and all parties moving on (vs. the larger pilot group attempting to evade the final product of that process by any and all means). Don't worry Metro...everyone gets what a bunch of double dealing USAPIAN's are. We get that none of the USAPAIAN faithful can EVER be held at their word. We get that we will NEVER be able to trust any USAPAIN faithful any further than we can throw them. Everyone else that is watching gets it too. The pariahs of the Commercial Aviation industry.

Don't worry, the end draws near. Judge Silver will make her decision, the company will abide by that decision, USAPA will attempt to appeal to someone for the decision. All the while, there will be east pilots that finally get they have been sold a bag of goods that NEVER could be delivered. They will realize there will be no pot of gold, no 3%, no snap back, no retro, and no improved contract without one that contains the Nicolau.

Delay, delay, delay, delay.......that's all that's been purchased, and at a tremendous cost. Pity.

Hey CB -

I really thought you were more of one of the civil folks around here who was trying to find a resolution to this mess - but the initial part of your reply seems to be a little heated "DONE OVER END OF STORY" - end quote.

It is far from over - even if you think judge silver is going to slam something down our throats.

But getting back to my original request - how does the Nic make someone who is a reserve CPT in PHX - now a blockholder in PHL/DCA or maybe CLT? Isn't that super seniority - unless you can show me how the numbers make that happen - but you didn't want and/or can't?

Metrojet