atpcliff
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 4,260
I posted this on another board, previously. I am a furloughed TSA pilot. I would appreciate hearing from other pilots that know more about this, especially from Mesa/Chautauqua, and the WOs.
Hi!
I have shortened this post, as I originally was 95% done, after about 30" of typing, and my computer was disconnected from AOL. The details I ommitted can mostly be found on the Chautauqua and Eagle MEC info lines and on other posts on the UNOFFICIAL TSA site (www.tsalounge.com).
TSA MEC info line: 800-282-2572
Eagle info line: 800-555-2670
Chautauqua MEC info line: 800-747-2313 x1600
If you have the Alleghany, Piedmont, PSA (the wholly owned-WO USAir regionals) or Mesa info line #s, I would appreciate getting those so I could follow along and get a better picture of what's happening. Thanks in advance!
Eagle says TSA will have to cut props as of 1 March, with another TSA poster saying it will be a loss of 6 aircraft. This, along with all of the other Eagle cuts/adjustments, will cover their seat-mile cap problem arising because of the APA (AA pilots) contract with AA through June. After Jun, they may have to make more cuts, which could affect TSA, potentially.
The Chautauqua info line said the original USAir pilot's MEC proposal for USAir to acquire 430 RJs and have the USAir pilots fly them until they are off of furlough, has been reduced, via negotiation, to approximately 50% of the pilots coming from USAir, with 50% from the regional's pilot list.
They also stated they are trying to negotiate to get their probationary pilots, who were FIRED, not furloughed, back on furlough and then on line before they get any USAir pilots.
Further, they stated that the MEC was requestiong (or it may have been already negotiated, I'm not sure which) that the USAir pilots would arrive at the bottom of the seniority list, but be paid at Chautauqua rates based on the longevity at USAir. They did not mention if they would come in as Capts, FOs, or how bidding, upgrades, etc. would be done.
The Chautauqua MEC guy noted that USAir anticipated having all of their pilots off of furlough and on line in 2 years. He stated the last time USAir had 300 pilots furloughed, they weren't all back on line for 8 years!
How Eagle may affect TSA:
If we lose 6 prop aircraft, and we are manned at 3.3 crews/A/C, that is the loss of about 40 pilot seats. There is, at the present time, A LOT of open time, at least on the J41 side, so possibly we wouldn't lose all 40 pilot slots.
How USAir may affect TSA:
430 new RJs, assuming their equally divided between the 3 WO's and TSA, Mesa and Chautauqua, would be about 70 A/C per carrier. In the Chautauqu info, they state that a minimum of 4 USAir pilots, or 50% of the pilot manning level per plane, whichever is higher, would go to USAir furloughees. Assuming, again, the TSA manning levels of 3.3 crews/A/C (I got this from a TSAlounge poster, so I don't know how accurate it is.), then for each of the 70 RJs TSA got, TSA pilots would fill 2.6 pilots/plane (with 4 going to USAir). 70x2.6 = 180 pilots.
Bottom Line:
Assuming the loss of 6 props is correct, the 430/70 RJs is correct, and the 3.3 crew manning level is correct, TSA will lose 40 pilots, and gain 180, for a net increase of 140. There are currently 139 furloughees (according to the TSAlounge.com site). I don't know how many poolies TSA has. So, it looks like potentially all of the furloughees could get called back.
Caveats:
I'm sure there is a lot of negotiating to do regarding the details of the USAir furloughees vs. own airline's pilots.
Will the WO's get ANY jets? They don't have any now, and some of their pilots, in reading their posts, seem to think that USAir doesn't want them to get any. I don't personally understand it, but that seems to be a concern.
How soon will the RJs start/take to come in? How much lead time does each airline need to train people for them? How long will it take to process the incoming USAir pilots?
Will TSA lose 40 pilots due to the Eagle situation? In a few months, will we lose more turboprops and more pilots?
How long will AA pilots be furloughed (then the Eagle/Connection seat-mile problem will go away)?
How fast will our industry bounce back in general? How long until the USAir pilots get off of furlough? What happens if USAir goes bankrupt, and later possibly ceases operations?
After not being able to find a job in '91, and then finally getting a flying job last year, and promptly getting furloughed, I would like to get a chance to fly again, sooner rather than later. I'm enjoying spending time with my kids, but when I hear the planes flying overhead, it makes my long to get back in the cockpit.
Good luck to all of you!
Cliff
GB,WI
Hi!
I have shortened this post, as I originally was 95% done, after about 30" of typing, and my computer was disconnected from AOL. The details I ommitted can mostly be found on the Chautauqua and Eagle MEC info lines and on other posts on the UNOFFICIAL TSA site (www.tsalounge.com).
TSA MEC info line: 800-282-2572
Eagle info line: 800-555-2670
Chautauqua MEC info line: 800-747-2313 x1600
If you have the Alleghany, Piedmont, PSA (the wholly owned-WO USAir regionals) or Mesa info line #s, I would appreciate getting those so I could follow along and get a better picture of what's happening. Thanks in advance!
Eagle says TSA will have to cut props as of 1 March, with another TSA poster saying it will be a loss of 6 aircraft. This, along with all of the other Eagle cuts/adjustments, will cover their seat-mile cap problem arising because of the APA (AA pilots) contract with AA through June. After Jun, they may have to make more cuts, which could affect TSA, potentially.
The Chautauqua info line said the original USAir pilot's MEC proposal for USAir to acquire 430 RJs and have the USAir pilots fly them until they are off of furlough, has been reduced, via negotiation, to approximately 50% of the pilots coming from USAir, with 50% from the regional's pilot list.
They also stated they are trying to negotiate to get their probationary pilots, who were FIRED, not furloughed, back on furlough and then on line before they get any USAir pilots.
Further, they stated that the MEC was requestiong (or it may have been already negotiated, I'm not sure which) that the USAir pilots would arrive at the bottom of the seniority list, but be paid at Chautauqua rates based on the longevity at USAir. They did not mention if they would come in as Capts, FOs, or how bidding, upgrades, etc. would be done.
The Chautauqua MEC guy noted that USAir anticipated having all of their pilots off of furlough and on line in 2 years. He stated the last time USAir had 300 pilots furloughed, they weren't all back on line for 8 years!
How Eagle may affect TSA:
If we lose 6 prop aircraft, and we are manned at 3.3 crews/A/C, that is the loss of about 40 pilot seats. There is, at the present time, A LOT of open time, at least on the J41 side, so possibly we wouldn't lose all 40 pilot slots.
How USAir may affect TSA:
430 new RJs, assuming their equally divided between the 3 WO's and TSA, Mesa and Chautauqua, would be about 70 A/C per carrier. In the Chautauqu info, they state that a minimum of 4 USAir pilots, or 50% of the pilot manning level per plane, whichever is higher, would go to USAir furloughees. Assuming, again, the TSA manning levels of 3.3 crews/A/C (I got this from a TSAlounge poster, so I don't know how accurate it is.), then for each of the 70 RJs TSA got, TSA pilots would fill 2.6 pilots/plane (with 4 going to USAir). 70x2.6 = 180 pilots.
Bottom Line:
Assuming the loss of 6 props is correct, the 430/70 RJs is correct, and the 3.3 crew manning level is correct, TSA will lose 40 pilots, and gain 180, for a net increase of 140. There are currently 139 furloughees (according to the TSAlounge.com site). I don't know how many poolies TSA has. So, it looks like potentially all of the furloughees could get called back.
Caveats:
I'm sure there is a lot of negotiating to do regarding the details of the USAir furloughees vs. own airline's pilots.
Will the WO's get ANY jets? They don't have any now, and some of their pilots, in reading their posts, seem to think that USAir doesn't want them to get any. I don't personally understand it, but that seems to be a concern.
How soon will the RJs start/take to come in? How much lead time does each airline need to train people for them? How long will it take to process the incoming USAir pilots?
Will TSA lose 40 pilots due to the Eagle situation? In a few months, will we lose more turboprops and more pilots?
How long will AA pilots be furloughed (then the Eagle/Connection seat-mile problem will go away)?
How fast will our industry bounce back in general? How long until the USAir pilots get off of furlough? What happens if USAir goes bankrupt, and later possibly ceases operations?
After not being able to find a job in '91, and then finally getting a flying job last year, and promptly getting furloughed, I would like to get a chance to fly again, sooner rather than later. I'm enjoying spending time with my kids, but when I hear the planes flying overhead, it makes my long to get back in the cockpit.
Good luck to all of you!
Cliff
GB,WI