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USAir RJs/AE cuts: TSA + Regionals

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Well-known member
Nov 26, 2001
I posted this on another board, previously. I am a furloughed TSA pilot. I would appreciate hearing from other pilots that know more about this, especially from Mesa/Chautauqua, and the WOs.


I have shortened this post, as I originally was 95% done, after about 30" of typing, and my computer was disconnected from AOL. The details I ommitted can mostly be found on the Chautauqua and Eagle MEC info lines and on other posts on the UNOFFICIAL TSA site (www.tsalounge.com).

TSA MEC info line: 800-282-2572
Eagle info line: 800-555-2670
Chautauqua MEC info line: 800-747-2313 x1600

If you have the Alleghany, Piedmont, PSA (the wholly owned-WO USAir regionals) or Mesa info line #s, I would appreciate getting those so I could follow along and get a better picture of what's happening. Thanks in advance!

Eagle says TSA will have to cut props as of 1 March, with another TSA poster saying it will be a loss of 6 aircraft. This, along with all of the other Eagle cuts/adjustments, will cover their seat-mile cap problem arising because of the APA (AA pilots) contract with AA through June. After Jun, they may have to make more cuts, which could affect TSA, potentially.

The Chautauqua info line said the original USAir pilot's MEC proposal for USAir to acquire 430 RJs and have the USAir pilots fly them until they are off of furlough, has been reduced, via negotiation, to approximately 50% of the pilots coming from USAir, with 50% from the regional's pilot list.

They also stated they are trying to negotiate to get their probationary pilots, who were FIRED, not furloughed, back on furlough and then on line before they get any USAir pilots.

Further, they stated that the MEC was requestiong (or it may have been already negotiated, I'm not sure which) that the USAir pilots would arrive at the bottom of the seniority list, but be paid at Chautauqua rates based on the longevity at USAir. They did not mention if they would come in as Capts, FOs, or how bidding, upgrades, etc. would be done.

The Chautauqua MEC guy noted that USAir anticipated having all of their pilots off of furlough and on line in 2 years. He stated the last time USAir had 300 pilots furloughed, they weren't all back on line for 8 years!

How Eagle may affect TSA:
If we lose 6 prop aircraft, and we are manned at 3.3 crews/A/C, that is the loss of about 40 pilot seats. There is, at the present time, A LOT of open time, at least on the J41 side, so possibly we wouldn't lose all 40 pilot slots.

How USAir may affect TSA:
430 new RJs, assuming their equally divided between the 3 WO's and TSA, Mesa and Chautauqua, would be about 70 A/C per carrier. In the Chautauqu info, they state that a minimum of 4 USAir pilots, or 50% of the pilot manning level per plane, whichever is higher, would go to USAir furloughees. Assuming, again, the TSA manning levels of 3.3 crews/A/C (I got this from a TSAlounge poster, so I don't know how accurate it is.), then for each of the 70 RJs TSA got, TSA pilots would fill 2.6 pilots/plane (with 4 going to USAir). 70x2.6 = 180 pilots.

Bottom Line:
Assuming the loss of 6 props is correct, the 430/70 RJs is correct, and the 3.3 crew manning level is correct, TSA will lose 40 pilots, and gain 180, for a net increase of 140. There are currently 139 furloughees (according to the TSAlounge.com site). I don't know how many poolies TSA has. So, it looks like potentially all of the furloughees could get called back.


I'm sure there is a lot of negotiating to do regarding the details of the USAir furloughees vs. own airline's pilots.

Will the WO's get ANY jets? They don't have any now, and some of their pilots, in reading their posts, seem to think that USAir doesn't want them to get any. I don't personally understand it, but that seems to be a concern.

How soon will the RJs start/take to come in? How much lead time does each airline need to train people for them? How long will it take to process the incoming USAir pilots?

Will TSA lose 40 pilots due to the Eagle situation? In a few months, will we lose more turboprops and more pilots?

How long will AA pilots be furloughed (then the Eagle/Connection seat-mile problem will go away)?

How fast will our industry bounce back in general? How long until the USAir pilots get off of furlough? What happens if USAir goes bankrupt, and later possibly ceases operations?

After not being able to find a job in '91, and then finally getting a flying job last year, and promptly getting furloughed, I would like to get a chance to fly again, sooner rather than later. I'm enjoying spending time with my kids, but when I hear the planes flying overhead, it makes my long to get back in the cockpit.

Good luck to all of you!

Will the WO's get ANY jets?

US Airways answered this question in their latest company update. (Every two weeks or so a company update gets sent to the contract carriers) According to that update, Airways has no plans on getting RJs for the WO's because they do not have the capital to lay out.

It went on to mention how they are in talks with the contract carriers in an attempt to get furloughed Airways pilots in the seats of the new RJs..
Effect on WO new lines?

Any guess on the effect of a RJ/SJ settlement on the WO new lines. They were passed down from US Air and PDT in particular is hiring to cover them. If the jets come into the system, won't the lines go from the WO's over to the jets? Like to hear your opinions, as I have an April class date with PDT.
WO's will never get jets........period. Maybe in 10 years when people absolutly refuse to fly on 30 year old Dash 8's or 20 year old Dorniers by then. Unfortunatly our companies might not even be around by then, and I'm sure US Airways will be no longer. Look at all the other major's, they have 100's of RJ's, and props are being phased out. Look at US Airways, the WO's are getting more props (not jets). Maybe the contract carriers are getting 100's of jet's but don't waste your time working at the WO's we are getting fu**** as usual. The greediness at the mainline side will shut their company down (pilots). Yeah they said we could get jets after their furloughed pilots get to fly them first. We laughed at their 10 point propsal, they fu**** us again. So they went to the contarct carrier's and are now figuring a way out how to get jet's to them, with their pilots flying them of course.
A couple of additional points.
This is a classic example of what all of the aviation annalysts have been saying for several years concerning the scoping of the RJ/SJ. Not only has US Air's mainline pilots contract left their company in a very poor condition to compete by not allowing RJ's on the property, they have also prohibited the company to pick up the slack and prosper. Management can not utilize their assets to the extent Delta is for market dominance. US Air has no ability to fund their own RJ's and is relying on outsourcing to accomplish their catch up to compete. This is deffinitely to little, to late. These mainline pilots have definitely cut their nose off to spite their face and now they are negotiating to fly at the outsourced carrier because of their own miss management. I guess that their own WO's that they personnaly severely restricted are not good enough for them to fly at themselves.
Additionaly, what is going to happen when US Air goes under (when, not if)? Who is going to want the WO's turboprop only airlines. What will happen to the likes of Mesa, TSA, Cha, etc. holding the bag with all of these additional RJ's on the property they cant fly?

It totaly amaizes me when I try to see the logic behined some of these mainline restrictions concerning the RJ. The industry is changing and the company with the most RJ's, wins.
U's problems go a lot deeper than the RJ issue. I predict in a couple of years, RJ's will be out in favor of airplanes with something other than turboprop cabins.

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