USAir recalls, maybe not

[m80drvr]

Just heard Parker say, on their employee, webcast that they were planning on recalling only about 100 next year. (I heard 100 my wife heard 170.) Still, with the retirements at both carriers as well as a new fleet type 100 to 170 sounds aweful low.

Either Parker will keep US shrinking or he is betting on age 60 to go. Either way that sucks for alot of people if true.

 

[linecheck]

Or he's just trying to create fear in the negotiating process.

 

[m80drvr]

Maybe maybe no time will tell.

Judging by his responses to some of the East employee questions, it was evident to me that he has no what he has bitten off with merger/ or buy out as he put it this time during this meeting. He has never dealt with a union that will honestly shutdown an airline. The West pilots just kind of roll over and take it. I think things will get interesting in a few months.

The classic statement was by an East mechanic that said ALL the profit sharing should go east and maybe a million (out of 48 million) or so should go west due to the east sacrifices. It never ceases to amaze me how the east employees (I am on furlough from there) continually display their feelings of entitlement. Should be fun when it comes time to mix crews.

Parker then pointed out that the west had never had the things the east gave up in the first place and that without the west employees there would be no east now. Then he mentioned that the liquidation of the east was already in the works. I have neve heard him mention that before.

I'm not starting a piss1ng contest I just thought these comments were funny and interesting. I'll be bypassing until forced to make a decision.

Time will tell.

 

[AAflyer]

Just heard Parker say, on their employee, webcast that they were planning on recalling only about 100 next year. (I heard 100 my wife heard 170.) Still, with the retirements at both carriers as well as a new fleet type 100 to 170 sounds aweful low.

Either Parker will keep US shrinking or he is betting on age 60 to go. Either way that sucks for alot of people if true.

It is fear, they told us only 10 a month (recalls) one of our furloughees was called and was told they may have as many as 25 in a class starting in Jan.

If your companies numbers don't add up (like AA's) then it is probably BS.

Good Luck to you guys.

I thought Parker and Arpey were going to kiss each other at a recent industry conference. Parker and Arpey agreed the best course was to shrink.. While their bonuses grow.

Silly me,

AA

 

[Bubba Dog]

Just heard Parker say, on their employee, webcast that they were planning on recalling only about 100 next year. (I heard 100 my wife heard 170.) Still, with the retirements at both carriers as well as a new fleet type 100 to 170 sounds aweful low.

Either Parker will keep US shrinking or he is betting on age 60 to go. Either way that sucks for alot of people if true.

If I remember corectly he said over 100. Time will tell.

 

[weasel_lips]

Maybe maybe no time will tell.

I'm not starting a piss1ng contest I just thought these comments were funny and interesting.

Really?

You post a “comment” from ONE “mechanic” that you supposedly “talked” to and then play it off like it is the collective opinion of everyone east of the Mississippi?

 

[ceo_of_the_sofa]

He's not making it up. The mechanic did say it in the webcast.

 

[gcsass]

. He has never dealt with a union that will honestly shutdown an airline.

I'm sure you mean AFA or IAM or CWU.......



The West pilots just kind of roll over and take it.

As opposed to the East guys?

 

[m80drvr]

. He has never dealt with a union that will honestly shutdown an airline.

I'm sure you mean AFA or IAM or CWU.......



The West pilots just kind of roll over and take it.

As opposed to the East guys?

No I meant the West AFA the west APLA the west IAM and the west CWU. I thought the would be understood but I guess I have to draw a diagram.


And yes I posted one comment from a mechanic, that was tempered by about 20 other comments as well as things I hear on crew buses, hotel lounges, crew rooms and east web boards. Case in point the east position in the merger arbitration.

 

[gcsass]

No I meant the West AFA the west APLA the west IAM and the west CWU. I thought the would be understood but I guess I have to draw a diagram.

Nope. seeing way too many diagrams these days..I just find it ironic that you infer that the East ALPA would consider shutting anything down.....


And yes I posted one comment from a mechanic, that was tempered by about 20 other comments as well as things I hear on crew buses, hotel lounges, crew rooms and east web boards. Case in point the east position in the merger arbitration.

Not qiute sure what you are talking about here.....

 

[ALGFLYR]

Well from the report the profit breakdown was as follows:

On a standalone basis, America West reported a net profit excluding special items of $3 million for the third quarter 2006

US Airways reported a net profit excluding special items of $109 million on a standalone basis for the third quarter 2006

Yeah, I guess 50/50 is fair...

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

How much would USAir's profit have been without America West's buyout?...

ALGFLYR, usually you post really good stuff, but I think you slipped a little on this last reply.

 

[ALGFLYR]

There will be 228 Retirements on the east side in 2007. There are probably at least another 20 or 30 this year. In 2007 AWA, will have 43 retirements. That is almost 300 pilots retiring, and that doesnt include medicals. If the staffing is approx. 10 pilots per aircraft. Were gettin about 12 190's next year, thats 120 extra pilot positions. So to staff the airline at it's current size plus the 190's, we need to replace those 300 retiring and fill the 120 190 seats. Thats 420 positions. If we recall only 100 pilots, we are losing 320 positions, or about 32 aircraft. Who knows. Just a WAG....

On a similar note, there is a minimun fleet size that was supposed to kick in 1 year after the merger. That time may have come. There should be a concrete number as far as the minimum fleet size now, and the 190's specifically don't count. Anyone know what this number is? How to get it was defined in the Transition Agreement.

I think this may very well be Mngt. Negotiating...

 

[ALGFLYR]

How much would USAir's profit have been without America West's buyout?...

ALGFLYR, usually you post really good stuff, but I think you slipped a little on this last reply.

Yeah sorry, must be the Coors Light...

I was not advocating either way, I was just suggesting this is what many on the East see and it probably sways their thinking towards what was indicated above in the case of the Mechanic... Guess I should have been more specific... No slam on the West intended. I say throw it all together, divide it up, get the integration done and lets just all move forward. After all were gonna have to fly together for a long time... If I ever get back...

 

[Itsallsogood]

"Excluding expenses related to the USAirways bancruptcy." Look were the 78 million dollar loss came from.
As for the 100 recalls, I believe that number is a scare tactic (furloughes next ?) from the Airline Management Negotiating 101 Handbook that Doug will use. In addition, could there be new hires to the right seat of the 190? Who knows.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

From the TA:

During the first year following the consummation of the Merger Agreement, America West and US Airways will each maintain not less than 80% of the number of aircraft (excluding SJs as defined in the US Airways agreement as amended by this Letter of Agreement) listed by month for that airline in Attachment B.

c) For US Airways, the number of minimum aircraft will be reestablishe done year after the consummation of the Merger Agreement at the lesser of total aircraft (excluding SJs), or the number of total aircraft then operated by US Airways (excluding SJs) less ten percent (10%), rounded to the nearest aircraft, with the daily utilization rate measured monthly as the average daily utilization rate for the prior twelve months less ten percent (10%).

d) For America West, the number of minimum aircraft will be established one year after the consummation of the Merger Agreement at the lesser of 140 total aircraft (excluding SJs), or the number of total aircraft then operated by America West (excluding SJs) less ten percent (10%), rounded to the nearest aircraft, with the daily utilization rate measured monthly as the average daily utilization rate for the prior twelve months less ten percent (10%).

I think we just passed the one year mark not too long ago.

As for the other... ALG I agree with you, we need to start working together but I'll tell you what, the West Group is tired of the of the entitlement attitude of the east pilot group.

A guy I flew with the other day said it best: "The East Guys are like the French, arrogant as H3ll and absolutely no right to be that way."

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Really?

You post a “comment” from ONE “mechanic” that you supposedly “talked” to and then play it off like it is the collective opinion of everyone east of the Mississippi?

It's Not?????

Ok had my fun for the month...

WD

 

[Itsallsogood]

(100 recalls) Or perhaps Doug is trying to persuade the furlougees to either "come back now or lose out" tactic to get an idea on how many are planning on coming back.

 

[Crzipilot]

On a similar note, there is a minimun fleet size that was supposed to kick in 1 year after the merger. That time may have come. There should be a concrete number as far as the minimum fleet size now, and the 190's specifically don't count. Anyone know what this number is? How to get it was defined in the Transition Agreement.
I think this may very well be Mngt. Negotiating...

I think the Min. Fleet is derived by the total # on property 1 year after Exit of BK. Sep 27?? Or something. MINUS 10% .......sooooo ya they could loose another 30 or so and not be in trouble with the TA.....

 

[ALGFLYR]

I think the Min. Fleet is derived by the total # on property 1 year after Exit of BK. Sep 27?? Or something. MINUS 10% .......sooooo ya they could loose another 30 or so and not be in trouble with the TA.....

I do believe the date to take a snapshot of the combined fleet has passed. It would be nice to know exactly how many planes we had on that date. I would hope someone is watching....

 

[trainer8]

AWA Merger committee seeks to snip the LCC Seniority List

From the TA:

I think we just passed the one year mark not too long ago.

As for the other... ALG I agree with you, we need to start working together but I'll tell you what, the West Group is tired of the of the entitlement attitude of the east pilot group.

A guy I flew with the other day said it best: "The East Guys are like the French, arrogant as H3ll and absolutely no right to be that way."

Speaking of arrogant, the AWA Merger Committee just filed briefs with the arbitor to remove pilots already on the US Airways Seniority List. Some of those pilots flew the E170 at MDA.

"Gutsy move, Maverick." In fact, prescedent setting. If successful, it would be a first to have one company's pilot group, kick 100 pilots of another company's pilot group off the other pilot group's Seniority List.

Those 100 pilots pose absolutley no threat to the AWA pilots as they were hired after June 2004! And yet they want them "removed."

Now who's arrogant?

T8

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

We opened the merger with the idea of relative seniority and East countered and maintained date of hire. In fact, the East has advocated in their opening argument that F'd East pilots be placed ahead of active West pilots. That's arrogance.

So, it sounds as if the AWA merger committee has decided to emulate the East's 5hitty attitude and fight instead of roll over. It didn't have to be this way but your Neg Com has set the pace that they deserve more than us and should have a windfall in the merger, that's arrogance too.

Besides your own Neg committee sold the Mid Atlantic guys down the river long before the merger.

Final thought, its all posturing anyway. When all is said and done I bet not much will have happened.

 

[TWA Dude]

Speaking of arrogant, the AWA Merger Committee just filed briefs with the arbitor to remove pilots already on the US Airways Seniority List. Some of those pilots flew the E170 at MDA.

I haven't seen the briefs you refer to but I'd guess it has something to do with being on furlough status at the time of the merger PID. We were told that some pilots were changed from furlough status to active status after the merger was announced. I've never heard anybody here object to any MDA pilots being on the master list.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Well from the report the profit breakdown was as follows:

On a standalone basis, America West reported a net profit excluding special items of $3 million for the third quarter 2006

US Airways reported a net profit excluding special items of $109 million on a standalone basis for the third quarter 2006

Yeah, I guess 50/50 is fair...

As long as it doesn't include any commuter pilots masquerading as mainline pilots just because they flew an EM170 at some point in their career


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Speaking of arrogant, the AWA Merger Committee just filed briefs with the arbitor to remove pilots already on the US Airways Seniority List. Some of those pilots flew the E170 at MDA.

"Gutsy move, Maverick." In fact, prescedent setting. If successful, it would be a first to have one company's pilot group, kick 100 pilots of another company's pilot group off the other pilot group's Seniority List.

Those 100 pilots pose absolutley no threat to the AWA pilots as they were hired after June 2004! And yet they want them "removed."

Now who's arrogant?

T8

Was the EM170 considered a Group 2 aircraft at the Old Usairways?

PHXFLYR

 

[Itsallsogood]

Some Piedmont pilots were hired at MDA to fill the right seats that the mainline pilots didn't take. Now they believe that they belong on the MAINLINE senority list. They never flew an aircraft that did not say Express and they never were interviewed and hired by AAA Mainline. It is an attempt, by the East, to water down their overall active list. Talk about arrogance.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

As long as it doesn't include any commuter pilots masquerading as mainline pilots just because they flew an EM170 at some point in their career


PHXFLYR

Man!! you start off the day with an attitude:laugh: now your brother would say that you're acting like your uncle!!! How ya been bro??

WD.

 

[Bubba Dog]

When are you folks going to realize that life isn't fair. Like the old saying goes,

"you don't get what you deserve in life,you get what you negotiate".

There is absolutely nothing that any of us can do now,the seniority integration train has already left the station. The best place to put our energies now is obtaining the best contract in the business.

 

[FR8mastr]

Some Piedmont pilots were hired at MDA to fill the right seats that the mainline pilots didn't take. Now they believe that they belong on the MAINLINE senority list. They never flew an aircraft that did not say Express and they never were interviewed and hired by AAA Mainline. It is an attempt, by the East, to water down their overall active list. Talk about arrogance.

That is not correct, those pilots were in fact hired at AAA and have all the appropriate applications and new hire paperwork to prove it, this was done well before AWA "saved" airways. Management also testified to an arbitrator that all pilots at the 170 division were in fact ALL Airways pilots. This is not arrogance just fact.
Besides all that what the heck do you care who is at the bottom of the list? Is it just about destroying 90 careers? You guys are great union types huh?

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

When are you folks going to realize that life isn't fair. Like the old saying goes,

"you don't get what you deserve in life,you get what you negotiate".

There is absolutely nothing that any of us can do now,the seniority integration train has already left the station. The best place to put our energies now is obtaining the best contract in the business.

I agree with Bubba Dog.