USAir Pilot Arrest - The Gestapo Tactics

[Dude Groovy]

Avbug,
I have read some of your posts in the past and have generally agreed. But, I believe you are wrong on this one. Generally I agree that silence is golden and that this pilot could have avoided trouble by saying nothing. But why should he? Maybe we should have just kept silent when the British thought to tax the colonies without representation or when the southern states said it was their states right to keep slaves. Silence is not always the answer. Prudence? Was it prudent to provoke a military power vastly stronger in the Revolution? Some things are worth fighting for. I for one support this U.S. Airways captain and his right to speak.

 

[likeitis]

"We" don't have remotely close to "the most complete background checks." Let's not kid ourselves.

So what you are saying is Joe I pump fuel has a more comprehensive background check than the pilots. Let's not kid ourselves. Tell me who in the airline business has a more comprehensive background check than pilots. I guarantee the number of people losing their jobs when these new FBI checks go through will be lowest amongst pilots vs. any other employee group. Read into it what you want.

 

[waka]

Dude Groovy,

This incident is in no way analogous to emancipation or the American revolution. This is not a free speech issue. The pilot had no right to say what he did in this situation as someone has no right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. The pilot could have written letters, picketed, organized a protest etc... with his message and he would not be arrested or risked losing his job. He used bad judgement and now he will face the cosequences. Personally, I hope they just slap his wrist. However, that is NOT to say that he acted appropriately.

 

[Stinger6]

relax the security

No one yet has come out and said that the security screenings in and of themselves are bogus. You're all griping about the lack of security and the differences between crews and passengers.

Do you mean we need even more restrictions to board?

Tighter security, in my mind, means the state department should have been doing its job to begin with instead of rubber stamping visa applications. Norm Mineta has got us playing catch up to something that hasn't been a threat in years, and even in light of the horrible events, still is a non starter.

You can't prevent terrorism. Period, dot. Super security and massive retaliation hasn't done much for Israel. And no matter how good the security point is, the next target is likely going to be non-aviation related. Pretty sad...

 

[ifly4food]

Dude Groovy,

This incident is in no way analogous to emancipation or the American revolution. This is not a free speech issue. The pilot had no right to say what he did in this situation as someone has no right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. The pilot could have written letters, picketed, organized a protest etc... with his message and he would not be arrested or risked losing his job. He used bad judgement and now he will face the cosequences. Personally, I hope they just slap his wrist. However, that is NOT to say that he acted appropriately.

This is very much a free speech issue. How many doctors, bankers, and other professionals are forced to strip down, have their personal property confiscated, and now have their speech restricted just to go to work? Not too many.

A person does have the "right" to yell fire in a theater. It is a stupid thing to do, but tell me what Federal law it violates. That is a tired analogy.

Writing letters and picketing would have been ignored... just like all of our and our union's complaints so far. Maybe this pilot will do some good (in spite of himself) by bringing this issue to a head in the only way possible... to become a martyr.

 

[waka]

n

IFF,

Airline pilot impostors making it through the security gate...it's been done. It's naive to call it "mission impossible". The screeners of which everyone here has a high opinion do NOT always check dispatch releases.

I do go through security on a routine basis on my way to my bird, my opinion is the same.

This pilot is not a martyr for airline pilots. The fact remains that he acted inappropriately and unprofessionally, he will now face the consequences. Persoanlly, I hope that they only slap his wrist and he gets off with a temporary unpaid suspension or something like that. That is not to say that he wasn't wrong.

 

[ifly4food]

Re: n

IFF,

Airline pilot impostors making it through the security gate...it's been done.

No it hasn't. Prove your allegations.
What you describe is 100% urban legend, based on a CNN story shortly after 9/11 that was retracted. It was based on several legitimate TWA pilots trying to commute out of NYC. They happened to be Middle Eastern looking and were arrested, which CNN jumped on. It later turned out that they were who they said they were, but CNN had already told the general public. Unfortunately, the retraction got nowhere near the play the original story did.

 

[avbug]

Unless it's a federal facility, yelling fire in a theatre isn't likely to violate federal law, but certainly local, county, and state ordinances. Incitement to riot, disturbing the peace, and other potential issues come into play. This is to say nothing about those potentially injured in the event panic forces the crowd from the theatre. However, you're right, it's not entirely germain to the topic.

Someone mentioned the pilot who stripped to his shorts in response to being searched, and walked through the line. I had to chuckle; partly because of the absurdity of it, but partially because lacking better judgement, it's probably something I would do.

It's hard to defend freedom and make a statement from the unemployment line, or in handcuffs.

That said, if enough pilots at one time stripped to their heart-covered boxers and marched, shoulders back and cap on straight, through the security line, I believe that changes would come quickly. It would take a lot of boxers and briefs to make the point, but it would be made. Single comments in the dark won't make a difference, and there lies the rub.

I don't believe he's a martyr, but if the issue is truly a grievance to the pilot community at large, then perhaps it's an issue that should be tackled as a community. I recommend the boxer protest only partially tongue in cheek; the boxer rebellion II may have as much effect as a letter writing campain, and would certainly get the attention of the public, and those in office.

The problem as I see it, is that it's not a big enough issue to take such an action to the SIDA perimeter. Few pilots would go for it. Since so few would go for it, the issue can't be all that important. That being the case, perhaps it's best just to keep quiet at the checkpoint and move on.

All in favor of the boxer rebellion II say aye.

 

[flashpoint]

Ah...

Good evening AvBug- Glad to see your're finally coming around. Fly4food, it's as though you and I have the same thought at the same time!

 

[ifly4food]

Unless it's a federal facility, yelling fire in a theatre isn't likely to violate federal law, but certainly local, county, and state ordinances. Incitement to riot, disturbing the peace, and other potential issues come into play. This is to say nothing about those potentially injured in the event panic forces the crowd from the theatre. However, you're right, it's not entirely germain to the topic.

Yes, perhaps you could charge that person with a misdemeanor local ordinance violation, but even that would be hard to uphold in court.
However, it's nowhere close to the felony this man is being charged with for "interfering with a Federal Security Screener" and "making terrorist threats"; charges which (under the new SIDA rules) disqualify you for airline employment.

All in favor of the boxer rebellion II say aye.

AYE!!! Where do we sign up?

 

[Ravengirl]

bring it on!

I'm game and I'm not even an airline pilot! Let's do it!

Ravengirl

 

[waka]

This is very much a free speech issue. How many doctors, bankers, and other professionals are forced to strip down, have their personal property confiscated, and now have their speech restricted just to go to work? Not too many.

A person does have the "right" to yell fire in a theater. It is a stupid thing to do, but tell me what Federal law it violates. That is a tired analogy.

This has absolutely nothing to do with free speech. Since when are pilots exceptions to laws covering joking about bombs? Have you ever objected to a passenger getting arrested for jokes about bombs? With your thinking, a pax would have the right to do so under the pretense of free speech. This falls in the same category....nothing to do with free speech. Doctor's and banker's offices don't fly passengers and aren't high profile targets for terrorism. If they somehow were, they would have to go through the similar security procedures. Most professionals will comply with security procedures regardless of how awkward it makes us feel. Sure there are flaws that need fixing. Four months to implement new procedures is not very long. Sure, much of the new procedures that we must tolerate are pretentious. As professionals, we must have patience and comply.

That is incorrect, a person does not have a right to yell "fire' in a theater. There are plenty of laws of which you could be indicted when yelling "fire" in a theater cause harm, i.e. wanton endangerment. The theater analogy stands regardless as to whether or not it's a federal law per se.

A pilot impostor (uniform, i.d.) did indeed make it through security at London Heathrow in the early nineties and our security is a joke compared to theirs. I'm working on getting your proof and will get back to you.

This pilot is not a martyr, he is just an example of what not to do.