USAir ousts ALPA

[Chuck Steak]

will this have any impact on flowthrough?

 

[WSurf]

will this have any impact on flowthrough?

What flowthru?

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

You have your facts a little backwards. It was a Merger. Outside investors put up the Dough and Merged BOTH airlines together. AW may have been a little more stable financially but not by far. If they did not merge with Usair Both Pilot groups would be walking the street!! That is a Fact!! You Speak of Arrogance yet the your the pot calling the kettle black.

Look at what Color the planes are painted and then tell me who bought who!! Globally Who hell has heard of America West. USair carey's a global name and that is why it is still being used. ALPA is too Fat and needed a wake up call and boy they sure got it!! I feel sorry for both pilot groups because I have friends on both sides. I just hope they can come to the table and work out their problems.

It's a long road ahead!!!

Airline Driver - if Parker had just waited a little longer, He wouldn'nt have had to merge. He simply could have took his money to the fire sale like everyone else.

WOW! Guys- what does the word union really mean?

Will the westies really refuse to pay dues? I sure would for the sake of my conscious. Now before someone calls me a liar-

1) I had the money and could have bought my way into the regionals, I chose not to.


2) I could have applied at the regionals when they weren't paying for training or lodging, I chose not to.

I am happy at SKW. JA has said repeatedly mergers are nothing more than headaches for this very reason. It's why SKW/ASA will probably never merge. (aside from scope issues.)

 

[OPECJet]

If any of those are remotely close to coming true its the first two (especially the first). The whole point in jumping ship on ALPA was to get relief on the seniority award. Without ALPA on the property that award means nothing. Does the mantra "seniority matters" ring a bell?

This sets a incredibly dangerous precedent.

Incorrect. The Nicolau award was from BINDING arbitration. You can't make that go away.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Yeah, that's what I thought.

How does decertifying ALPA change the seniority integration???

cliff
YIP

 

[greyskyracer]

Airline Driver - if Parker had just waited a little longer, He wouldn'nt have had to merge. He simply could have took his money to the fire sale like everyone else.

WOW! Guys- what does the word union really mean?

Will the westies really refuse to pay dues? I sure would for the sake of my conscious. Now before someone calls me a liar-

1) I had the money and could have bought my way into the regionals, I chose not to.


2) I could have applied at the regionals when they weren't paying for training or lodging, I chose not to.

I am happy at SKW. JA has said repeatedly mergers are nothing more than headaches for this very reason. It's why SKW/ASA will probably never merge. (aside from scope issues.)

Doug didn't have any money to bring to a fire sale. The financing was secured by Bruce lakefields team, so that they could get there investment back.

 

[rickair7777]

Incorrect. The Nicolau award was from BINDING arbitration. You can't make that go away.

Yes. It can be contested (and obviously will be), but barring a finding of actual impropriety in the original process the award should stand.

USAPA can try to toss it out unilaterally, but that will not hold water...the integration award occured BEFORE usapa. The westies will simply claim (correctly) that their positions on the usapa list were set by the previous award. If usapa tries anything else, the westies will sue and win. Not sure what objectives usapa hopes to accomplish, but overturning the arbitration is not likely to be one of them.

There is some language in the merger transition agreement that might be stumbling block, but I don't see how a court could let the westies get thrown under the bus under these circumstances.

 

[Poahi]

Yes. It can be contested (and obviously will be), but barring a finding of actual impropriety in the original process the award should stand.

I think it's going to be a little more complicated than that. The Easties are going to say that they were'nt being represented and therefore are entitled to have their case reheard.

The best support of this is that both they and some of the Westies, ousted their representatives. This may go on for a while. Anyime there is lots of money involved, pilots are going to fight. Both groups are going to make sure the other loses and that the most junior pilots take most of the hits. Some things are never going to change.

 

[DoinTime]

Incorrect. The Nicolau award was from BINDING arbitration. You can't make that go away.

When something is characterized as being "binding" you first have to have a clear definition of who it is binding upon before you establish your expectations. In this case the Nic award is binding upon ALPA (both the AWA and AAA MECs - not the individual pilots per say) as they were the parties to this dispute. The ruling is not binding upon the airline and now that neither the AWA or AAA MECs exist a very strong case can be made on it not applying to anyone anymore.

The big question now is what kind of representational structure will USAPA establish. If they give the west pilots a voice at the table there will still be a dispute over the Nic award. If USAPA is set up as an oligarchy where elected representatives from the majority represent all pilots its going to be trouble for the Westies.

A similar analogy could be drawn from a divorced couple who have their assets split in arbitration. If sometime after the arbitration the parties agree to different terms of asset splitting they are free to do so by consensual agreement because the award is only binding upon them. If USAPA (the representative body representing all pilots) comes to a consensual agreement on disregarding the Nic award they will probably be free to do so.

USAPA has employed a very crafty legal firm to provide their legal advise and you can bet that they have done their homework before making all kinds of promises that would surely lead to their demise if they fail to keep them.

IMHO the smartest thing the West pilots can do right now is engage in the creation of USAPA and push for fair representation of their interests. When it comes time to elect representatives they will need every vote they can muster.

 

[BeCareful!]

Man, I'm glad so many of the pilots on here are also lawyers. This stuff would get really out-of-hand if you guys were all just mindlessly pontificating and regurgitating what you heard in the crew rooms!