USAir Fires Pilot For Not Removing Hat

[flashpoint]

As long as we keep fighting amongst ourselves, the more time it will take to accomplish good things in this industry for eachother. I'm sure University Dude doesn't like being demeaned in security just like the rest of us don't. Who cares.. he's probably young. I say let 'em get some experience in the right seat with some d#$k Captains.

What we need is a positive id system for all airline employees. The days of Captains being Captains and First Class being First Class are pretty much gone... But for those of us left in this biz with 30 years to go like myself, lets stop the fighting, unite, and DAMMIT... DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

 

[ScRaMJeT]

KSU_Aviator that was a cheap shot!!!

Kansass State University Aviator

I can tell you three things about yourself just by the way you talk.
#1. You are a female.
#2. You are laid off from Mesaba.
#3. You’re not… the sharpest knife in the drawer.

How did he cause a safety problem by not taking off his hat? Does he really deserve to get fired because he didn’t take his hat off? Pilots have made royal mistakes on airplanes and have not gotten fired. But yet he deserves to lose everything that he has invested in his career because he didn’t remove his hat for some trigger happy, power hungry security guard. Come on gurlie, wake up and smell the jet fuel.

You said that you,"have never made any unprovoked attacks on any person”, you just made one against those pilots!!!

A.L.P.A. has years and years of experience with pilots and airlines and you are trying to say that they are on the wrong side of the issue and all three pilots deserve to get fired. Your 1300 hours (1100 in 152’s) gives you the ability to judge A.L.P.A. Give me a freaking break. I don’t like paying DALPA dues but I trust they will be there when I need them.

Kansas may have been the #1 one Public College in America (LOL) but they didn’t teach you spelling and grammar real well. By the way you talk, they certainly weren’t #1 in academics and they certainly weren’t #1 in sports, because Oklahoma University has ran all over them for the last 10 years.

I’ve already been brought down a lot of notches by flydeltajets,(boeingman got him back for me) but girl you didn’t bring me down any notches. ROFL

Remember Gurlie: "Its better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" And if you don’t think this adage is referring to you, then just read a couple of the preceding post.

The pilot should not have gotten fired, plan and simple. I agree with Flashpoint lets band together and march on capitol hill. I propose the MILLION PILOT MARCH.

ScRaMJeT

 

[1900laker]

And by the way ScRaMJeT I graduated from KSU which happens to be the #1 public college in America. So unless you graduated from Stanford, Harvard, Princeton or Yale, I know for a fact that I have a far better education than you and I have flown for an airline and just because I'm on furlough does not mean that I don't know how frustrating it is.

Hey KSU. You missed a comma in the first sentence between KSU and which. Also your second thought is what they call a run-on sentence, which is generally learned about sometime in 6th grade english. Sorry, I couldn't resist since you WERE touting your education above all other public colleges in America. Oh, and by the way, I graduated from the Naval Academy. And I appreciate the fact that your taxes paid to send me there.

Had to have some fun with that.

 

[Michael Knight]

Yeah but how do the security people know that this guy is actually a pilot?

How do WE know that these guys are really security people?

The recent FBI sting found hundreds of counterfeit and some real law enforcement badges, uniforms and other gear for sale - several on ebay. If a bad guy could get a Utah State Trooper's badge for the 2002 Olympics I'm sure they could pull off pretending to be a security checker at an airport much easier than being a pilot for an airline - both would give them access. Makes you think?

Interesting times, I hope we have enough smart people in the right places who can make some changes for the better... like better ID's for Airline pilots.

 

[bigboy]

It's that simple, I dont think that an airline pilot should lose his life long career for such a minor event,dont forget that this person worked soo hard to get to where he is.did we forget about that idiot passenger from Atlanta that shut down the whole airport for hours, and only got fined $3000.Hmmm,let me think here a pilot doesn't take his hat and loses his life long career, and an Idiot cause havoc in the world's bussiest airport, and walks away with a 3000$ fine. WHERE IS THE JUSTICE HERE???!!!

 

[ksu_aviator]

Sence noone seems to believe me that KSU is #1 in academics try this link out...by they way I didn't see OU on there anywhere.

http://www.mediarelations.ksu.edu/WEB/News/NewsReleases/publicscholarschart.pdf

 

[flashpoint]

Hey KSU-

Let's get things back on track shall we... What are your alternative proposals to the some of the current security related issues outlined below:


- Ineffective airport security precedures.
- Unscreened airport workers.
- Unscreened checked bags in aircraft.
- Plastic explosives.
- Unarmed flight crews.
- Elderly or pregnant flight attendants (in 50 years, both)


Thanks
-El Guapo Grande

 

[boscenter]

ksu_aviator

I hardly think a document published by the "media relations & marketing" dept. of KSU can provide unbiased testimony about the quality of it's program.

Granted, I'm sure it's a fine school. But to claim its the best and to shove such a questionable document in my face as "proof" isn't exactly going to cut it.

I'm sure one of the many things you have learned at your fine school is that you should support an argument with clear and unbiased evidence. That document is biased, and doesn't serve a clear purpose.

I also agree that unless you walk through a security checkpoint at a large airport on a daily basis, you have no grounds to make your judgements and claims. This security business has gotten out of hand. And, until they get a team of engineers together to re-design this system from scratch, it will be like this for the forseeable future.

 

[T1bubba]

KSU,

Wow, you went to the "#1 public college in America" and you still made two mistakes in the first three words of your last post. Guess they didn't teach you how to proofread.

BTW, KSU didn't make the top 50 public schools according to US News this year.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/natudoc/natudoc_pubs.htm


T1bubba

 

[ShawnC]

KSU do you think that anyone really cares where you graduated from. I am attending ERAU, but that in real life is not a big deal for me, its just a school.

The point of this thread is to discuse the removal of the hat, lets not get off base and go into personal attacks.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Look, the whole reason I went off on the personal attack is because I was attacked solely based on my opinion. Certain posters made claims against me that I felt obligated to defend. I stand behind my original post completely.

The pilot that refused to remove his hat was undermining that airports security and setting a bad example for the entire public. He forgot that when he puts on that uniform he must act like a professional and a representative of that company. When the public sees the pilots arguing with the security personnel they begin to think of security not as an effective tool, but rather a hassle. Even though I personally agree that security at most airports is far from good, undermining the process will not help it to improve.

Even if the security agent was a pain in the ass, I would be willing to bet that that pilot wishes he had just taken off the hat. I doubt anyone wants to end their career over something as as simple as that. His refusal to submit to the security screening process in this post 9/11 era is an outragous offense and gives the airline every right to dismiss him.

As for my ideas on the security issues, I don't know what would be 100% effective. I do know that this type of disobedience is inappropriate and will accomplish nothing in the long term.


By the way...because you still don't believe me about KSU academics....try this link out...its the Topeka Kansas newspaper and it starts out talking about football but ends with academics in the last paragraph.

http://www.cjonline.com/stories/090598/cat_goeringfbcolumn.shtml

 

[Medivacer]

These security people have gone way to far in there power hungry eyes.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this.

Not one of the hijackers wore ID tags to get them past security.
What about the moron with the shoe bomb?

Off hand, I know of two cases where disgruntled workers tried to make trouble with the airplane (this is were the ID part comes in). The first incident didn't amount to anything(I think they guy broke down crying). From what I understand about Egypt Air, that speaks for it's self.

Egypt Air is an unfortunate example to the security screeners. The cruiser used no weapons but his hands. Thats right no nail clippers, no leatherman.

Have any of you folks seen a newspaper stand fellow have to go through, or even a coffee shop chick? I haven't.

Security people are two steps behind, in my opinion. The only measures I've seen them take are to counter what has already taken place.

I've never had an engine failure, but I've been trained to handle it and get myself and my fish passengers down safely.

What's stopping the security people suggesting to their supervisors new techniques and ideas to stop beaches. I can almost garuntee that the folks on the last rung do suggest it to their supervisors, but it just stops right there for fear of repremand from above.

Isn't learning from others mistake just a little to late in this case?

 

[Corbon]

You guys need to focus on the positive aspects of the crew strip searches...after all, there has not been ONE SINGLE flight crew that has hijacked their own aircraft. Thats right, not even one pilot has attempted it. And this can only be attributed to the highly trained and skilled screeners who dare to jump out and subdue those unruley, pesky guys in blue uniforms and hats. Taking fate into their own hands, they wrestle away those nail files and finger clippers on a daily basis...and then come back tomorrow for more!
I wonder what would happen if, during a routine cavity search by one of these screeners, you would ask him/her if its legal for you to have that axe that you always keep in the cockpit. Might be kind of fun to do on somebody who's real gung ho. Especially if they try to initiate some sort of confiscation.
On a more serious note, I agree with Flysdeltasjets. The security guys are bending over backwords to say "Hey look, I'm not profiling Muslims..sure, I'm humiliating this pilot, but hes not on the don't-offend list so he's fair game. Either that or it's the "lets mess with the white pilot guy just because we can" complex. Maybe a mixture of both. It's kind of like the movie "Airplane" when the Middle Eastern looking individuals walk through the metal detectors with bazookas and rifles and nothing happens, then when grandma walks through, she sets it off and gets assaulted.
I guess it's good that I'm furloughed right now or I'd probably end up with my name in a story like this. This PC crap is utterly disgusting.
Night all.....

 

[Bataan]

Umm, just curious Medivacer, what the hell are "fish passenger's"?

 

[Cornelius]

I vote for crewmembers and all other employees that have to pass security to be issued ID badges with magnetic strips on the back. The info received from the data base the screener has available would have a picture of the employee, employer, job duty, start date, and end date if applicable. All the typical personal information would be on there to. If you don't want to worry about stolen badges, then you could have a little keypad that you type a password into. The screener will then check to see if it matches with the data base password. The system would be updated on a daily basis.

Or we could get a cool bar code tatooed on the back of our neck.

My thoughts on the firing of these pilots are that the screeners and management have their priorties all fouled up in these instances. Give me a break, sooner or later we'll be like little puppets following screeners and managements every little order. I don't advocate getting into a verbal argument though that gets out of hand.

By the way, I went to the Musketeen County School of Beauty which is ranked number 1. So my opinion counts. Where do you think I learned to spell so well?

 

[woody]

I really believe KSU offers a wonderful education, too bad they are putting out an inferior product!!!! my 2 cents Woody

 

[eriknorth]

I really have no place to take a side on such things, but I would like to say a couple of things.

First, I really respect you guys for the work that you put into flying. I'm very new at all of this, but I know that you all have put in a lot of work and had to put up with a lot of crap.

Also, out here at UGA, we have to enter our ID # or swipe our card and then put our hand on the scanner to get into many buildings. These scanners are all over the place. I don't see why security couldn't implement something along those lines. I wouldn't think that it would be that expensive. But of course, expensive for me is super sizing my value meals (college=no money-im sure you all know). Well, be safe.
-eriknorth

 

[skydash]

Just wait until they're federalized........

 

[likeitis]

Well actually anyone has the right to refuse a security search. If he refused it then he doesn't go passed the security checkpoint. Sounds like an overzealous cop to me.

I'll have to agree with everyone else on these BS security searches on crewmembers.

By the way KSU, your fans are the most irritating college football fans on earth. I make a habit of traveling around the country to different games every week and found that, by far, that KSU Stadium is the god awfulest place to watch a game. Not so much the stadium, but the annoying people.

I think if you want to rank schools the first way is to look at which ones get the most federal and private research money. Seems to me that if these companies are going to spend their money, they are going to go where they believe the work will be done the best. I don't have the latest numbers but a few years ago it went a little like this. 1. Harvard 2. University of Wisconsin 3. Stanford University 4. University of Michigan 5. Iowa State University. Like I said this is what it was a little while ago and it could be different now. Where these people are putting their money speaks volumes.

Lastly who cares where you went to school? College is what each individual makes of it. I've seen borderline retards come from Harvard and people who were brilliant who graduated from East Prairie View State A&M School of Finger-painting.