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USAF moving toward Synthetic fuel

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dtfl

Well-known member
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Apr 9, 2004
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Why post in Majors? Because it means a drop in demand for conventional fuel from the USAF is on teh horizon.

C-17 flies cross country on synthetic fuel



By Patrick Winn - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Dec 17, 2007 19:10:11 EST
Today was the day the first C-17 Globemaster flew across the country powered by synthetic fuel.
A Globemaster — its tanks half-filled with standard jet fuel and half with a synthetic, coal-derived fuel — flew Dec. 17 from Washington’s McChord Air Force Base to New Jersey’s McGuire Air Force Base. The B-52 bomber is already certified to use this fuel mix and full certification is expected for the C-17 in coming months.
It’s the latest milestone in an effort to prove all of the Air Force’s fleet can use this domestically produced synthetic fuel by 2011. By 2016, the Air Force wants all of its flights in the continental U.S. powered by the mix, touted as cleaner and less reliant on petroleum piped from foreign soil.
Looking further into the future, Assistant Secretary William Anderson with the Air Force’s Installations, Environment and Logistics department estimated that synthetic fuel could power jets on live, operational missions by the middle of next century.
“We believe we need domestic sources of aviation fuel so we can fight tonight and fight tomorrow,” he said.
Anderson, at a Dec. 12 Pentagon meeting with reporters, laid out a sweeping package of Air Force alternative energy projects, some of them certain and some of them in rough, innovative stages. The Air Force, as the American government’s largest consumer of oil, must use its buying power to kick-start the private sector’s fledgling alternative fuels market. He’s presently in talks, for example, with Minnesota officials over pushing commercial interests to mine the state’s coal reserves near Malmstrom Air Force Base and produce synthetic fuel.
The Air Force’s goal, Anderson said, is to build the market so it can provide roughly 400 million gallons of synthetic fuel to the service by 2016. It also needs to bring on allied air forces, which share refueling stations with the U.S.
Other projects in the works include:
*On the heels of commemorating the continent’s largest solar “photo-voltaic” power plant at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. — which covers 140 acres and will provide 25 percent of the base’s electricity — the Air Force will request proposals for similar plants at Luke, Kirtland and Edwards Air Force bases. They’re located, respectively, in Arizona, New Mexico and California. Though solar-powered projects are likely, Anderson said, other energy sources such as wind aren’t excluded.
*Developing a small nuclear-powered energy source — approximately one-tenth the size of a traditional nuclear reactor — that could power one base. These plans are in their infancy, Anderson said.
*Heavily researching biofuels, which contain energy derived from carbon sources such as plant life.
 
This should be the airlines Number 1 agenda! I read about this a while back and if the airlines used this fuel it would save something like 40-60% of their overall cost.
 
I read about this a while back and if the airlines used this fuel it would save something like 40-60% of their overall cost.

If synthetic fuel was 40-60% cheaper then regular fuel everyone would be using it. The problem with replacing regular gas is even at current market prices it is still cheap.

The Nazi's were converting coal into fuel during WWII and while it is a viable alternative for the military, it doesn't as of yet really have a practical place in the commercial market.
 
while it is a viable alternative for the military, it doesn't as of yet really have a practical place in the commercial market.


Are you speaking as an informed expert, with facts and figures (or at least a source or PhD or something) to back up this assertion, or are you just talking out of your @ss?
 
Are you speaking as an informed expert, with facts and figures (or at least a source or PhD or something) to back up this assertion, or are you just talking out of your @ss?

What facts and figures do you need? If there was a source that was 40-60% cheaper for gasoline, people would be selling it and making $$$. There is a reason why the Germans went back to making gas out of oil after the end of WWII. Oil is the cheapest form of energy out there.
 
Oil is the cheapest form of energy out there.

bro, let me clue you in. oil is a non-renewable resource. it will disappear from the earth, possibly within our lifetimes. investment for a replacement, or at least some way to dilute our demand, must occur now.

what's cheaper, investing a relatively small amount on some way to integrate biofuels into commercial aircaft now, or spending zillions figuring out a way to power jet engines on your ignorance after the oil's all gone?
 
They went back because it was cheaper at the time. Now its not so cheap and its economically dangerous to rely only on conventional fuels. The military just started really testing this not that long ago because they are the biggest user of fuels in this country. They realize that now the cost of fuel has exceeded the cost of developing something new. This new fuel once developed and aircraft are converted (not cheap) this fuel will be a lot cheaper. Its now getting to the point where the current fuels arent cheap enough to not look for an alternative.
 
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Are you speaking as an informed expert, with facts and figures (or at least a source or PhD or something) to back up this assertion, or are you just talking out of your @ss?

JKE,

I was flying with a guy who was a know-it-all type spouting off facts and figures about everything. He even had information to back up his statements, and he seemed to be an informed expert on everything.
Finally after I've heard enough, I made a smart a$$ comment to him about being a rocket scientist.
I was telling the next guy I flew with about the know-it-all, and he said he knew the guy. He chuckled and said that the guy really is a rocket scientist!! He has numerous degrees, one in physics and another in aerospace engineering. I then assumed the position and inserted foot in mouth.:D
 
According to a report I saw on one of the news channels, I believe based on a RAND Corp report, coal could be converted to oil at around the mid-50's $$ The reason why it's not done en masse now is because the startup costs to produce it in the volumes needed are in the tens of billions and Big Oil/Coal is afraid of investing in case the past repeats itself. Read on...

This was done once before during the Arab oil embargo of the early 70s. A private-gov't joint venture was started to do the coal thing at about the $30 some-odd/bbl price and when billions on infrastructure had been built and flowing oil, OPEC crashed the price and the venture went bankrupt.

No doubt, OPEC would again crash the price if they saw we were about to go self-sustaining. We just have to have the gumption to keep off "cheap oil" should this happen and we keep producing our own stuff. We supposedly dwarf the Middle East's capacity in our own coal reserves.

Realistically, this should be done and NOW. It should tide us over to when a hydrogen fuel infrastructure is reasonable and in place, as well as Nuking-up and continuing in perfecting fusion.

Neilman of JetBlue has evidently toyed with the idea of coal conversion. I hope he goes through with it! If the airlines were smart, they'd form a collective and do it in concert.

I'm no rocket scientist...just a nuclear one ;)
 

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