US Airways to Apply for China Service

[Wiskey Driver]

That's no way to talk about your sister! And she needs her beauty rest right now!

Now how can your moms be my sister?? I realize that you southern hillbillys are in the the whole kissing cousins thing but dam!!!uke:



And now you're flying off by getting teased!:beer:
No not at all in fact I can play this game to the end hell I grew up doing this. Let the cracks begin.
737

WDimp:

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Hmmmm, welfare recipients, let's see 3 separate BK filings and 2 separate government ATSB loans to stay in business. I guess we know who the welfare child in the industry is.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Hey, don't take it personally Whiskey Driver (perfect name for an LCC pilot btw), I just like pulling the leg of arrogant LCC pilots.

Where I am concerned please feel free to crack jokes. In fact look at us like chrysler corp. Now I can't take credit for the East side because I wasn't there. I do know that this puppy made dollars all last year while DAL lost bank! You are where we have been kind like been there done that for us now were're on the ups, hope to see you there someday. Keep in mind though any move you even think of making and were're there. This is gonna be fun.:laugh:

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I stand by my original statement.

An endorsement from you is not really convincing.

You guys do seem to be obssesing about the potential China application.

I have no idea what the USAir plan is (i.e city pairs, frequencies, fleets etc.) assuming that there is a plan, but a lack of airframes is not a problem. Negotiating rates and workrules for a new type will take longer and be more complicated than acquiring aircraft. 777s are available, though expensive, on the lease market and airbus is just about willing to give away 340-600s.

I think that the merger fall through is good for USAir pilots but not that good for the widget pilots.

Delta's future is far from certain.

Be careful bro the Deltoids seem to get their panties in a wad when teased:laugh:

WD.

 

[737 Pylt]

Well, it's good to see that the second grade recess mentality is alive and well in the south.

And the trailer park/government handout welfare attitude is alive and well in the west!

737

 

[Marko Ramius]

What flavor kool aid are they serving you in Tempe these days, bourbon, or scotch?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

The plan is to scamble and get some jets. Is that it? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

LCC doesn't have the aircraft, the trained crews, or the maintenance program for those A340s.

Wake up and smell the coffee, Parker doesn't have a plan.

Drunken banter between you guys aside, I doubt it is that hard to for a company to obtain a few A340's new or used at this time. Especially a company that has Airbus on it's board. It's not like they're talking about a huge order or something. As far as training goes they already have A330's and according to Airbus:

"The A330 and A340 feature nearly identical cockpits and have highly similar flying qualities, allowing both aircraft to be operated by a common pool of pilots. In fact, flight crews can transition from the A340 to the A330 in only one day, while a move from the A330 to A340 is performed in just three days."

I would imagine that there is quite a bit of maintenance commonality between the two aircraft as well, although even that doesn't look to be much of a problem since W/D said the birds would come from Air Canada. ACE holdings which is basically Air Canada and it's subsidiaries is one of the backers of LCC along with Airbus. When they jumped in on the deal, they mentioned the hope of performing MRO work for the new company. Considering that Parker likes to outsource most of his mx anyway, it seems like a perfect marriage.

This move could be the beginning of Parker attempting to position an independent Airways in the market. It wouldn't be surprising if he attempts to launch additional intl service going forward just like CAL/DAL/UAL have been doing. While I'm sure y'all would prefer DAL running unopposed for this upcoming route, I'm not sure that means it's a bad plan.

 

[FDJ2]

It wouldn't be surprising if he attempts to launch additional intl service going forward just like CAL/DAL/UAL have been doing. While I'm sure y'all would prefer DAL running unopposed for this upcoming route, I'm not sure that means it's a bad plan.

I agree with most of what you are saying Marko. I believe LCC will try to expand its international market, but I very much doubt the DOT will take their application for China route authority seriously.

While it is true that LCC could acquire A340s in short order, it is also true that they don't currently operate A340s, and I suspect they don't have them on their operating certificate or ops specs. You also bring up a good point that an A330 crew could transition to the A340 in only three days, but who's going to do the training and what FAA approved training program for the A340 does LCC have? Who's going to do the check rides and who's going to do the OE training? We haven't even touched on the maintenance program, but as you can see, where getting A340s and additional crews for those A340s may not take long for an established A340 operator, it takes significantly longer to spool up a reliable A340 fleet from scratch.

Perhaps if LCC had an A340 fleet operating today they would at least be competitive for the China routes, but as it stands today they don't. If LCC intends to be competitive in the future, as routes become available, Parker may want to start acquiring the assets required to serve the market before he applies in the future and have his application prepared in a timely manner.

The 2008 China route authority and its application process has been known for some time, the fact that LCC is scrambling to put together an application at the last minute, is desperately urging the DOT to hold off on reviewing DAL's timely and complete application until LCC can finally get its act together and complete their own and the fact that LCC doesn't even have the capability to serve that market just makes it hard for anyone to take the management team at Tempe seriously.

 

[Marko Ramius]

FD2,

While I don't know for sure, I'm betting you are overestimating the difficulty for an established operator of either the A330 or 340 to bring on the other type. They are essentially the same aircraft, with the primary differences being the center landing gear b/c of the 340's increased weight and the 4 engines. The engines are CFM's which cannot be that different from the ones on LCC's Airbus and 737 planes. While I bet the commonality would help LCC's mx dept., I did touch on how ACE(Air Canada) has been interested in doing mx work since they bought into LCC so they do have a solution that would satisfy the feds if they chose not to bring it in house immediately. As far as training goes, I think the 330/340 share a common type and only require differences training. 1 day from 340 to 330 and 3 days the other way, so I bet the training is more of an amendment to the current program than an all new program. If it is all new, then I bet they get it done by Airbus or Air Canada who do have approved training. The OE instructors would likely come from current A330 check airmen who are involved in the inevitable proving runs that would be done ahead of the service. In fact, I bet those guys would be operating many of the initial flights anyway. If the planes weren't common types and probably about 80-85% common parts, I'd agree with your assertion(s), I just don't think that is the case here.

As to why Parker is pushing the buttons now and scrambling, I think that is obvious. He just got a bunch of bankers to buy off on his plan to by DL and get it approved by the gov't. If he gets control of DL, he just keeps fighting for their existing application but how does it look to the banks and the government for Parker to be fighting for an independent LCC China authorization while clamoring for a DL merger? Wouldn't show much confidence in what he was trying to sell, would it? That's all said done now, so now he can go fight for those China slots which he is. There is a precedent for going for the routes without the a/c. AA got their approval to do DFW-NRT without having any aircraft that could do it. They bought 2 old TWA 747 Stubby's (SP) and flew it that way until they got their MD-11's. You may not like/agree with it but it's not out of left field in this industry. I know you're sick of Parker and just want DL to get it's app approved, but that doesn't make what LCC is doing crazy. Given the lost merger and the specter of lost revenue and growth potential from the likelihood that UA or the rest of the Star Alliance will fly these types of routes if they LCC doesn't it seems smart actually.

 

[Itsallsogood]

An additional problem may be that if we have two seperate contracts, one list or just PHX based flying, A340 flying may not go to A330 pilots.
Just a thought.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

An additional problem may be that if we have two seperate contracts, one list or just PHX based flying, A340 flying may not go to A330 pilots.
Just a thought.

Ok now keep in mind that we will have one seniority list long before that time. The list should be back no later than June of this year while the China service is not scheduled to start until 08. I also est that we should have a contract in place by that time. Notice I said should because one should never under estimate carpet baggers like management.

WD.

 

[Green]

WD,

I'm glad to see your optimism on getting a new contract by June. I listened to the latest webcast and I came away thinking that Parker would rather let the place burn to the ground than pay us a decent wage...The guy won't even spend money on a cab!! IMHO the reps need to keep sending the DO YOUR JOB AND ONLY YOUR JOB message out to the pilot group on a daily basis if possible. The average line pilot will lose interest/forget to keep the pressure on over time and on time performance will go back up. Parker will have no incentive to pay up...Time to turn the screws a little....

 

[Marko Ramius]

An additional problem may be that if we have two seperate contracts, one list or just PHX based flying, A340 flying may not go to A330 pilots.
Just a thought.

I thought some other guy said that Airways was already flying some former AW stuff out of PHX/LAS and vice versa, so what would stop them from deadheading a crew to PHX, overnighting and then operating China? Or upgrading a frequency from say PHL, CLT to a 340 to get the crew there? Or opening something like PHX-LGW or FRA, and making a long trip where a crew does CLT-LGW-PHX-??China-PHX-CLT? Where there is a management, there is a way.

 

[737 Pylt]

The 2008 China route authority and its application process has been known for some time, the fact that LCC is scrambling to put together an application at the last minute, is desperately urging the DOT to hold off on reviewing DAL's timely and complete application until LCC can finally get its act together and complete their own and the fact that LCC doesn't even have the capability to serve that market just makes it hard for anyone to take the management team at Tempe seriously.

Kind of like his half assed attempt at the DL takeover!
Parker can no longer be taken seriously. He's a putz with a bad drinking problem who sounds like John Kerry during the last presidential election!

737

 

[Wiskey Driver]

WD,

I'm glad to see your optimism on getting a new contract by June. I listened to the latest webcast and I came away thinking that Parker would rather let the place burn to the ground than pay us a decent wage...The guy won't even spend money on a cab!! IMHO the reps need to keep sending the DO YOUR JOB AND ONLY YOUR JOB message out to the pilot group on a daily basis if possible. The average line pilot will lose interest/forget to keep the pressure on over time and on time performance will go back up. Parker will have no incentive to pay up...Time to turn the screws a little....

Ok Green your wish is my command, I will see that an update with do your Job gets out. Thanks

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Kind of like his half assed attempt at the DL takeover!
Parker can no longer be taken seriously. He's a putz with a bad drinking problem who sounds like John Kerry during the last presidential election!

737

Or maybe DAL wasn't the target at all but rather scare any other carrier away with an offer to purchase of 10 billion. Now you would have to admit that folks would have to be totally stupid to consider some other offer of far less when you had 10 billion on the table... Maybe you were a pawn all along. We will never know the real answer...

WD

 

[737 Pylt]

Or maybe DAL wasn't the target at all but rather scare any other carrier away with an offer to purchase of 10 billion. Now you would have to admit that folks would have to be totally stupid to consider some other offer of far less when you had 10 billion on the table... Maybe you were a pawn all along. We will never know the real answer...

WD

I think you're giving "alcoholic doug" too much credit. Based on his performance on captial hill, and his lack of responsibility behind the wheel of his automobile, this dumbass isn't fit to run an ant farm!

737

 

[Green]

Ok Green your wish is my command, I will see that an update with do your Job gets out. Thanks

WD.

thanks. Not trying to tell you how to do your job but I noticed the first 6 days or so we averaged about 40% D0. If you look at the numbers now we're back up to 70% on time. I don't think 6 days of marginal operations is going to convince Parker to give us all a big raise. We have to shake the foundation a little! Thanks for the volunteer work...

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I think you're giving "alcoholic doug" too much credit. Based on his performance on captial hill, and his lack of responsibility behind the wheel of his automobile, this dumbass isn't fit to run an ant farm!

737

That's you personal view of Doug and I have to respect that. I will say this about the man, while I feel that it was extremely poor judgement on his part getting behind the wheel after having been drinking he did bring AAA back and he did manage an air carrier to half a billon in profits. Drunk or not as a share holder I would care less about his personal issues just make the stock price rise and get me paid. Isn't that really all stock holders care about??

The BOD will decide his fate but don't be too suprised to see him around for a little longer. 500 million can heal most wounds and will withstand the media attention of the moment. Just wait CNN already has something else to talk about...

WD

 

[Wiskey Driver]

thanks. Not trying to tell you how to do your job but I noticed the first 6 days or so we averaged about 40% D0. If you look at the numbers now we're back up to 70% on time. I don't think 6 days of marginal operations is going to convince Parker to give us all a big raise. We have to shake the foundation a little! Thanks for the volunteer work...

You're right we are all over it...

WD.

 

[FDJ2]

Or maybe DAL wasn't the target at all but rather scare any other carrier away with an offer to purchase of 10 billion.

Obviously $10B wasn't enough, so any other suitor would of had to pony up more to start with.

Regardless, LCC wants to bid on the China flying, as long as they get their application in on time and they don't slow down the process in order to accomodate their belated entry into the bid it's all fine and dandy.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Obviously $10B wasn't enough, so any other suitor would of had to pony up more to start with.

Regardless, LCC wants to bid on the China flying, as long as they get their application in on time and they don't slow down the process in order to accomodate their belated entry into the bid it's all fine and dandy.

In terms of overall value of DAL it's really hard to say. Unless one has direct access to the creditors committee we will never really know the truth about any of this. I know labor and lower management feels that it was them that stalled this deal and I won't rain on that little parade but truth be told that had little to no impact at all.

The China deal had to have been in the works prior be it in a merger or not it was bound to happen. I would also expect that we will also enter into south american markets as well. Growth, it can be a wonderful thing...

WD.

 

[FDJ2]

In terms of overall value of DAL it's really hard to say.

Not really, $10B was offered and refused. Typically that means the offer wasn't enough.

Unless one has direct access to the creditors committee we will never really know the truth about any of this.

DALPA has direct access to the creditor committee. As a matter of fact DALPA has one of the largest claims on the committee.

I know labor and lower management feels that it was them that stalled this deal and I won't rain on that little parade but truth be told that had little to no impact at all.

You have no idea if what you are saying is true. Pure speculation on your part. The fact is that DALPA has a direct impact on the creditors committee and is in fact a voting member of that committee. While it is true that YOU have no idea what went on with the creditors committee, DALPA does.

The China deal had to have been in the works prior be it in a merger or not it was bound to happen.

A little late getting in the game, don't you think? Or did Parker put all his eggs in the DAL takeover basket? In looks like he had no real plan, otherwise he would have his application in already. What city pair is LCC planning on in its bid?

I would also expect that we will also enter into south american markets as well. Growth, it can be a wonderful thing...

WD.

Growth is a good thing, good luck with your international growth plans. Maybe in '09 LCCr you'll be competitive, if you get the aircraft that are capable of doing the trip. When are those A350s coming?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Growth is a good thing, good luck with your international growth plans. Maybe in '09 LCCr you'll be competitive, if you get the aircraft that are capable of doing the trip. When are those A350s coming?

A350's?? I guess when ever airbus decides to make them.. The plan as far as China is concerned is to be done with 5 leased A340's from Air Canada. unless you feel that they can't make the jump.

You don't really believe that labor played a big part in all of this do you?? The deal was canned by Boeing, do some research!! Boeing canned the ATA deal and we moved on to bigger and better things. They did the same thing here as Airbus was in investor it would stand to reason that boeing products would not be purchased in the numbers thy would like. Check that out and get back to me.

WD

 

[General Lee]

A350's?? I guess when ever airbus decides to make them.. The plan as far as China is concerned is to be done with 5 leased A340's from Air Canada. unless you feel that they can't make the jump.

You don't really believe that labor played a big part in all of this do you?? The deal was canned by Boeing, do some research!! Boeing canned the ATA deal and we moved on to bigger and better things. They did the same thing here as Airbus was in investor it would stand to reason that boeing products would not be purchased in the numbers thy would like. Check that out and get back to me.

WD

So, which hub would have the A340 service? PHL? (There is already too much service around PHL---UAL just got IAD--PEK, CAL flies EWR--PEK, and China Eastern just started JFK--PVG (Shanghai)) How about CLT? That doesn't sound right to me. How about PHX? Maybe, but LAX has service from CAAC to PVG, China Eastern to PEK. What about LAS? Could be, but most people in China probably go to the Casinos in Macau. It really doesn't make much sense. ATL, on the other hand, is the largest and busiest hub in the world, with more connections than any other airport, to the Carribbean, South America, and Europe. That is more logical.... Can you tell me WD why you think your hubs would get the service, and which one?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[400ADude]

Based on his performance on captial hill, and his lack of responsibility behind the wheel of his automobile, this dumbass isn't fit to run an ant farm![/QUOTE]

That is the end result and why he was rejected on his offer. He won't be running that ant farm in Atlanta.:laugh:

 

[Wiskey Driver]

So, which hub would have the A340 service? PHL? (There is already too much service around PHL---UAL just got IAD--PEK, CAL flies EWR--PEK, and China Eastern just started JFK--PVG (Shanghai)) How about CLT? That doesn't sound right to me. How about PHX? Maybe, but LAX has service from CAAC to PVG, China Eastern to PEK. What about LAS? Could be, but most people in China probably go to the Casinos in Macau. It really doesn't make much sense. ATL, on the other hand, is the largest and busiest hub in the world, with more connections than any other airport, to the Carribbean, South America, and Europe. That is more logical.... Can you tell me WD why you think your hubs would get the service, and which one?


Bye Bye--General Lee

That's a real good question General. Word on the street is PHX but that's just word and always subject to change. Hmmm maybe LAS!! Yeah that would be nice

I really wish I could give you answers as to who should get what and why. This seems too much like my dad is bigger than your dad general and I thought that line of rhetoric was below you???

WD.

 

[737 Pylt]

That is the end result and why he was rejected on his offer. He won't be running that ant farm in Atlanta.:laugh:

Hey a'hole:
isn't it time for a tire change on your trailer??
Don't worry, your pathetic company will be dismantled soon enough by the Air Tran folks, and you'll be on the street!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

737

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Hey a'hole:
isn't it time for a tire change on your trailer??
Don't worry, your pathetic company will be dismantled soon enough by the Air Tran folks, and you'll be on the street!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

737

What???? I know that wasn't meant for my carrier was it???

WD.

 

[737 Pylt]

What???? I know that wasn't meant for my carrier was it???

WD.

WD:
No it wasn't

400AHOLE=chuck yogurt/lawman/einstein/texas crotch rot/boris yelling/lame lizard/sky fly

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few names. This troll has a history of bashing DL and Air Tran. Just follow his posts...He's a miserable POS who comes out from under his rock about once a week to troll the mall looking for under age boys!
Eventually he'll get himself banned again!

BTW, I think LAS-China would be a stellar market.....Those asians love to gamble!

737

 

[General Lee]

That's a real good question General. Word on the street is PHX but that's just word and always subject to change. Hmmm maybe LAS!! Yeah that would be nice

I really wish I could give you answers as to who should get what and why. This seems too much like my dad is bigger than your dad general and I thought that line of rhetoric was below you???

WD.

No, it is called debate. I gave you my thinking on why some of your hubs would be unlikely for service to China, due to hub constraints, other cities nearby already having service, etc. I also gave a great reason why ATL should and will have it, since it is the busiest hub in the World with great connections. If you can't answer my question with solid answers, just state that. Many people cannot. I don't think Doug Parker could answer my question either, since he is probably busy right now with other issues. I can understand why he threw your airline in the ring for those slots though, because some slight chance is better than no chance. Just like the bid for Delta...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

A350's?? I guess when ever airbus decides to make them.. The plan as far as China is concerned is to be done with 5 leased A340's from Air Canada. unless you feel that they can't make the jump.

I think they can make it from Canada just fine.

What cities is LCC planning on serving with those A340s and when are they scheduled to begin revenue service?

You don't really believe that labor played a big part in all of this do you?? The deal was canned by Boeing, do some research!!

Source? And I mean source as it pertains to DAL, not what Airbus did to LCC, or is this just a hunch. Of course my source is on the creditors committee, so I hope you have a good one.

Once again, good luck with your international expansion plans. I believe AWA tried it once before. I hope it works out better for you this time. Perhaps you'll have a shot at a China route next go round when then A340s are on your certificate.