US Airways Suspends Pilot

[avbug]

While we're reciting great quotes,

Discretion IS the better part of valor.

It's far better to keep one's trap shut and appear the fool, rather than open it, and remove all doubt.

Rather than concentrate on the educational level of the screener, why not allow the pilot to take responsibility for his actions? That is after all, what pilots do. We take rull responsibility for our actions, those of our crew, and that of our airplane.

Further, we represent the company to the passengers.

While these may have been a few mischosen words, let's not forget that wars have been fought over a few mischosen words. Ultimately, Christ wasn't crucified for being a political heritic and subversion as charged before pontias pilate; he was crucified by the Sanhedrin for stating that he is the Son of God. A few words, and those marked the turning point of time as we measure it today.

I doubt the words of one pilot in the terminal will change the world, but as professionals, let us not remember that a few words will make a great deal of difference. We all know the penalty for misreading a clearance; under the right circumstances, it can be rather serious.

One would not stand in court on a capitol charge, and state, "Guilty! I mean, seriously your honor, I meant innocent. I was just kidding. Guilty! HAAAAA! I'm not really guilty. If I wanted to, I could come up there and kick your ass right now, your honor, why would I need a weapon? Just kidding!" See how that goes over. A few misplaced words can and do make a difference.

Don't berate the security personnel. Don't cloud the issue by berating their apparel, or hair style, as some posters have done. Don't berate their education, or pay level. Security didn't make the comment, and doubtless there is more yet to be revealed. One comment isn't the entire storyhere; rest assured of that. No one has become a scape goat, the "government" hasn't chosen Elwood to be an example to the masses of pilots.

Elwood can take responsibility for his own actions. At over forty years old, he's old enough; he's a big boy. He made the comment, not the FAA, not security, not his company; just Elwood.

Don't cry about how an airline pilot deserves better. Are any of us better than our passengers? Hardly. Strip off the ego and simmer down. The passengers deserve better. Had a passenger made the comment, the passenger would have been denied boarding, and folks here would be clammering to crucify the passenger...fine him, jail him; the FAA isn't doing enough! What is good for the goose is good for the gander, so they say.

They're right, whom ever "they" are.

 

[flashpoint]

Fighterjock, looks like I pissed you off!


AvBug,

Ok, since no one else seems to be up at this hour I will respond again.


It's far better to keep one's trap shut and appear the fool, rather than open it, and remove all doubt.

Since you referred to him, it's a pretty good thing Christ opened his mouth.


Further, we represent the company to the passengers.

Yep, standing there with someone's hands between our legs with our shoes, jacket, and tie going through the treadmill because we exist in a system created this way by our company's.



We all know the penalty for misreading a clearance; under the right circumstances, it can be rather serious.

Right.



Don't cry about how an airline pilot deserves better. Are any of us better than our passengers? Hardly. Strip off the ego and simmer down. The passengers deserve better.

I'd like to see a passenger shoot a raw data ILS to mins on the first shot. And, if we're no better, then I look forward to not having to wear this uniform. The company seems to want me to wear it for some reason though. On that note, having been a ramper for over 5 years, I commonly get out to help the fueler when we're running late. The passengers see me doing that and usually stop by the flight deck to say thanks on the way out. Do it for the passengers, they deserve better, right?


I enjoyed reading your informative, intuitive posts, once again even if they are on the opposing side of the court. Thanks for the debate- Goodnight. Fighterjock, well.... Learn how to take it in the rear, you'll be doing it your whole career. Besides, if we bumped into one another at the bar I'd buy you a beer in good fun- Then I'd drink you under the table.

 

[Draginass]

A significant part of this problem is the BLATANT INCOMPETENCE OF THE FAA to provide a positive and electronically verifiable identification system for aircrew members (or all airport workers for that matter), and Law Enforcement Officers. ALPA pushed for this OVER 10 YEARS AGO. Action to date by the FAA??? NOTHING, NADA, as usual.

 

[~~~^~~~]

AVBUG:

I think many of us have a problem with the lack of respect the airport screeners show to pilots.

What the US Air pilot said is a statement that you and I know to be absolutely true. When has our Country thrown folks in jail for speaking the truth?

All of a sudden a bunch of under-achieving, under-educated, goons with a chip on their shoulder over their $8.25 an hour jobs have been given power over $200,000 a year sky gods - a few of the screeners can not help but turn into bullys. They have been waiting years to "teach these arrogant pilots a lesson." (School is now in session folks)

That is the reason why all pilots need to get a copy of and read the security directives - you will either be the teacher, or the student, you choose.

 

[Cornelius]

That proposal Draginass mentioned sounds like the best bet. A quick computer check can verify who that person is and what their security clearance is. It would have worked with that idiot USSS guy who got denied a couple weeks ago. A picture and fingerprints should be on it to. It sounds like it would be a difficult program to get started and maintain just because of all the different organizations with security clearance but it may be worth the effort.

 

[capt_zman]

I sincerely hope that some of the previous comments mentioned above are a small sampling of the professional pilot pools that are employed by our airline industry.
Please lose the god complex, as it only harms the public opinion of pilots. Do you honestly believe that you are better than your passengers because "I'd like to see a passenger shoot a raw data ils down to mins on the first shot" or that you make 200k a year. Well guess what, I made over a million dollars last year and I can shoot a raw data ILS down to mins on the first shot. Does that still mean you are better than I?
My wife was sitting here reading this with me and simply started laughing and walked away. She's an opthamologist who daily performs miracles of restoring eyesight to all different kinds of people. Try removing a retinal tumor from a 2 year old in a life or death situation.
I don't disagree that an airline pilot has an extreme responsibility for the safety of its passengers, but please put it into perspective and get a grip.

 

[T-handle]

Mesaba security incident

One of our fellow Mesaba pilots was fired over a similar incident over a DTW security incident a little while ago. I don't know the FULL story and details but..

He was going through DTW security and he set off the metal detector. They told him that he needed to get in the "wand/pat down" line. Now this is where I'm not sure of the details. Either he already went through it once OR he was about to when he stripped down to his boxers!!!!! yes, he took off everything but his boxers and went through the metal detector. He was apparently arrested for indecent exposure and it later got back to our company and chief pilots. He was then fired.

Not sure if he was just frustrated like the USAirways pilot or if he was just playing a joke, doing something everyone had talked about doing and like all those cartoons in the newspaper.

Like I said I don't know the exact details if he was on probation or if he was a veteran here. Not sure if ALPA had any chance in defending him.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Capt_Zman:

This is not about money - it is about certification, training & respect that is earned.

Before performing our duties as pilots we must pass through a training and certification process. As pilots we have responsible positions, but are powerless to do anything outside of our direct lines of authority.

Police officers have much more broad powers. They can deprive the general public of freedom, property and even life, subject to Judicial review. Police officers go through intensive training, testing, certification, operational experience with senior officers and peer review before being turned loose to use the power given to them by the State.

Now airport security personnel have the same general powers that Police do - but wait a minute - their training consists of watching four to six hours of video tapes, a day long seminar and passing a background check (both of which sometimes do not happen before they begin working!) There is no objective certification requirements that ensure that the person with police powers over your freedom and property have been trained, are physically, or psychologically fit for duty. Lets face it - for $6.50 to $8.25 an hour the airport security companies will take whoever applies for the position.

Then there is the fact that the security companies have to meet certain racial quotas, and minority participation requirements, which are facts that everyone calls me a "racist" for mentioning. All I'm saying is that the best person should be in the position regardless of whether their ethnicity is the same as the current holder of the Mayor's office and regardless of how much the security company contributed to a re-election fund.

If you are a pilot making over a million a year, I highly suspect that you don't have to deal with airport security that often when getting your airplane out of the hangar. That is great! However, don't be so quick to criticize pilots who are legitimately concerned about the hassle that our life blood (the passengers) and us have to endure on a daily basis.

I think everyone on this board would agree that our frustration stems from the fact that some airport security personnel are not properly trained, or are otherwise incabable of performing their duties.

 

[dondk]

After reading the thread and seeing the different point of views I find this both confusing and enlightening.

For some we are no different than our pax, while this is a decent argument there also lies fault. Our profession is similar to most other professionals, and with that we should be treated with the same respect they are. At court houses throughout this country there are security screeners, I have never seen a lawyer nearly strip searched or harassed. So why are we different? Doctor's are treated with respect as well by the security staff at hospitals, and some urban hospitals have some decent security.

For all of us professionals, we attained this level by either giving at least 7 years of service to our country. Those who came from civillan backgrounds for the most part are college educated and most of us paid a good 20-25K for our degree's. Now add our flight training and our dues to this profession by flying for peanuts (as us regional guys still do), the lost opportunties because we want to fly. Also add the hours and days from our families for our profession. Some of this cannot be assigned a dollar amount but regardless most professional pilots have endured a good 50K or more to be where we are and a good deal of years.

Take the $$$ and the time and we are really no different than the Doctor's and Lawyers. We just do a different job function.

When we are harassed, our authority challenged, demeaned, and dispespected for everything we went through for our profession over a pair of tweezers, a nail clipper or whatever by someone who maybe at best has invested 10% of what we have already done. To add insult to the injury these individuals now have federal powers behind them. The requirements for thier jobs were suggested to be raised but congress reversed the decision as it would eliminate a large part of the workforce.

Each time we are disrespected it will devalue our work and commitment to our profession, at some point our profession will cease to exist. What then? Right now it is the security screeners, will the the passengers be next?. Will it come a time when we will be ashameed or afraid to wear our uniforms our companies want us so proudly to display? Our industry is in poor shape, that makes matters worse as each one of us want to ensure we get another paycheck and we are willing to sell ourselves or our respect for this paycheck.

It is truly a sad day for all professional pilots...

 

[Capt. Over]

Stupid is, as stupid does...



It's simple really...if this idiot cannot understand that given recent events saying something stupid, even if he IS fed up and he IS just "joking around", is going to land him in the FBI building, he deserves to be taken out of his uniform...at least for a while. Newsflash...there ain't no more jokin' around with this stuff folks. If this guy can't be professional enough to understand what we need to do at the security checkpoints then I don't think he deserves to be in the pilot seat. Those of us out of a job, at least this furloughed pilot, look at this clown being totally clueless about what it means to be a professional pilot. Throw the whole book at him!