US Airways pilots will for fly for less than MESA!!!!! AGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jbDC9]

It's time for us to take things into our own hands and do what is best for us.....

Curious if that means leaving the Delta brand and going out on your own?

Unless you do that and take your chances with your own brand name, you will always be controlled in one way or another by the mainline and it's union.

I always seem to see folks talk the way you are about how mainline is stealing "your" routes, or controlling what airplanes you fly, but until you are willing to break out the paint brush and wipe the mainline carriers name and logo off the side of the airplane..................

So far Independence is the only one that had the gonads to really go out on their own.

Yep, right on the money; however, JoeM/Surplus1/Squiggly line guy (Fins? wtf?) and the rest of the RJDC clowns don't get it. I've posted similar thoughts on previous threads and they pass it by, ignore it completely, heads buried in the sand... they don't want to hear reality.

 

[BenderGonzales]

"Can someone tell me who allowed the regionals to fly RJs' to begin with? Mainline carriers maybe?"

ok Fltlvl. What makes an airplane an "RJ"?

 

[N2264J]

Re: US Airways pilots will fly for less than MESA!

Originally Posted by SiouxHockeyFan

Maybe instead of blaming all the regionals we can now look at what the legacy carriers are dong to this industry. This new pay rate just goes to show it isn't just the regionals, but every pilot is willing to fly a shiny new jet for less than someone else.

I seriously hope you're being sarcastic.

Looks like the Delta MEC is in the process of making a TA with a 12 year Captain rate on the EMB-190 of $95.70, apparently lowballing to get the plane on the property.

Mainline pilots don't have the moral authority to hurl epithets like "Shiney New Jet Syndrome" at anyone. Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Did you honestly expect them to just keep rolling over as they see larger and larger aircraft leave the property?

At some point you have to wake up and say, "oh crap. We better figure out a way to hang on to these 90-120 seat platforms before the (DC9s, F100s, 737s, _insert your plane here_) is gone too."

 

[BlackPilot628]

"Can someone tell me who allowed the regionals to fly RJs' to begin with? Mainline carriers maybe?"

ok Fltlvl. What makes an airplane an "RJ"?

I think that the CRJ2's and the E145 series was a good move for the majors. These planes allowed them to test the markets and provide services to smaller cities that can't handle a B732 (for Delta) or even a F100. (for the U) They were used for all the right reasons when they were introduced in the around 1997. This date doesn't include the BAe-146 which ASA was flying in the early 90's and the ones MES and AWI had before that time stamp. Any airplane with more than 50 seats that was a turbojet should have remained at the majors. The majors had control of the scope and let it go, now they need to regain control of those scopes. Unfortunately, i feel that it is to late to regain the 70 seat flying, there is SO MUCH of it out there.

 

[BlackPilot628]

Looks like the Delta MEC is in the process of making a TA with a 12 year Captain rate on the EMB-190 of $95.70, apparently lowballing to get the plane on the property.

Mainline pilots don't have the moral authority to hurl epithets like "Shiney New Jet Syndrome" at anyone. Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

While I agree with your statement, I think we need to see if they will arrange for a secondary pay scale that will take effect 2-3 years after the first E190's are flown for Delta/ the U. We hear all to much, " Lets get the planes on property and then we'll work on the pay." It hasn't work for any other company thus far. Let's hope the bar is set high.

 

[TWA Dude]

While I agree with your statement, I think we need to see if they will arrange for a secondary pay scale that will take effect 2-3 years after the first E190's are flown for Delta/ the U. We hear all to much, " Lets get the planes on property and then we'll work on the pay."

Remember that not only must the company and union agree but so too must the judge, and he's looking out for the interest of the creditors as well. To exit Chap 11 a viable business plan must be presented and if it includes too many balooning costs it's no good. This is but one reason why Chap 11 is so bad for pilots. They have little choice in the matter.

 

[Mysteryofflight]

Top pay for erj 170 at rep/shut amer is $99

um.. where did you get this #? It must be a few years old....

 

[BenderGonzales]

"The majors had control of the scope and let it go, now they need to regain control of those scopes."

Time for a little "scope" refresher.

EVERY contract contains scope. SCOPE defines the work which is to be done by the employee.

A very basic scope clause which is included in most airline contracts would be: "All flying which is to be performed by Chautauqua must be performed by pilots on the Chautauqua system seniority list."

The ownership, in the case, is Chautauqua flying. The company can not go out, for example, buy a bunch of 737s, and fly them as "Chautauqua Airlines" but with off-the-street pilots. If they buy 737s, they must be flown by Chautauqua pilots. (let's not muddy the waters with alter-egos right now)

Most major-airline scope language includes one small difference:

"All flying which is to be performed by US Airways must be performed by pilots on the US Airways system seniority list except..."

The except is the difference. Here the parties negotiating the contract may determine that certain work is undesirable, and that work may be excepted from the contract. This frees the company to find other sources to perform said work.

The company has, until now, been successful in pressuring the unions to release scope on 50, 70, and some specific 90 seat airplanes. The company can not legally (without breaking the contract) outsource work that is not specifically mentioned in these scope-clauses.

They may find themselves limited by number of aircraft, type of aircraft, gross-weight, or passenger seats. This was, I believe, the genesis of the RJDC lawsuit. They believe that once a certain aircraft type is deemed "undesirable" and released from scope, it should have no further restrictions.

I/e - the mainline pilots continue to artificially prevent the company from responding to market-forces by limiting the number of 70 seat aircraft that can be flown.

They had a point and perhaps certain sections of those clauses should have been removed to prevent those artificial restrictions.

Scope itself, however, could never just "go away". Scope is the backbone of any contract. It defines what work is to be performed and who will perform it.

There has been outcry by some regional pilots about what they term, "left-over bargaining". They're angry that they can only negotiate to gain what the mainline pilots have deemed undesirable.

Unfortunately, that is the nature of that outsourced lift. They can not negotiate for more, because there IS no more to negotiate for.

I own my house, my furniture, and my car. If one day I decide I dont want my car, and I sell it. It's gone. I can't get it back unless I BUY at back at a price that the new owner deems reasonable. (my "car" is 50/70 seat flying and the new owner is airline management who chooses to lease it to another driver)

On the same note, the person who is leasing that car can't expect to also gain access to my furniture and my home! I haven't "sold" those to airline management yet. Nomatter how badly airline management wants to sell my house and my furniture to this lessor, he can't do so unless I sign over those assets to him.

Make sense?

Up until now, airline management has been "buying" homes and furniture (almost literally) by threatening bankruptcy, loss of pensions, downgrades, furloughs, etc.

Now, suddenly, the pilots have decided, "whoa! We've sold ENOUGH of our stuff!" They are not going to make any more deals. In fact, they are willing to pay a premium in order to keep what little remaining furniture they have -- Call it protection money since the airline managers are dabbling in the mafia.

So I hope you guys are enjoying my car. I admit it was a mistake to sell it. I'm not trying to come back for it. But the next car that is purchased will be mine, and i'm not going to allow any further "exceptions" in the contract to release it.

The pilots at US Airways and apparently Delta won't sell any more jobs.

--Just an observation from a guy who is no longer an airline pilot. This stuff is much more entertaining when you no longer rely on it for a living.

 

[hoover]

Back in the late 90's, every major airline pilot group out there were all saying the same thing. "No RJ's for the regionals" "Gonna be flown by pilots on the mainline seniority list" blah blah blah. But it was all BS. Mainline pilots didn't want RJ's on their property. They simply used the RJ as a bargaining chip to get better pay for their mainline jets. And it worked like charm. They were happy to give away that flying in exchange for huge raises at the mainline.

Now several years later, the raises are gone, the flying is gone, but all of a sudden it is Mesa's fault?

 

[N2264J]

US Airways pilots will fly for less than MESA!

You CMR pilots sure pounded your chests a whole bunch, but when it comes right down to it, roll a shiny new jet on your ramp and you'll dig deep to get the chance to fly it. Nevermind the toxic effect your concessions for jets scheme had on your ASA brothers.

$95.70 for the E-190?

Let me guess: this has nothing to do with "Shiny New Jet Syndrome" which, as I understand it, can only be a regional affliction, or the toxic effect your concessions for jets is having on your ASA brothers. As we were lectured during the merger petition, Delta pilots can not be whipsawed by an RJ.

...But it was all BS.

By the way, how's that Brand Scope workin' out for ya?

 

[Blucher]

Tastes like chicken

"Can someone tell me who allowed the regionals to fly RJs' to begin with? Mainline carriers maybe?"

ok Fltlvl. What makes an airplane an "RJ"?

Bender,

Personally, I generally go with what the manufacturer calls it. CRJ, ERJ whatever, in both cases it's in the name. Embraer has a bit of an advantage here in that it can easily refer to it's aircraft as E-? Where as if Canadair trys to say C-? everyone will assume it's a Cessna product. Therefore they'll call them CR700's and the like, which keeps Canadair "Regional" 700 in the title. Also, it would appear that Embraer is a bit more daring in their design and don't rely soly on stretching the tube as far as they can. So it would be easier for most people to consider E-170 and larger no longer "regional," whereas the CRJ family is easily recognizable to most people as "regional jet." Something that could also differentiate between the two is the passenger reaction to the two. Most passengers I've spoken with hate "regional jets" because they're very uncomfortable. The ERJ (135/145) tends to top the list on that one, with the CRJ a close second in terms of passenger discomfort. However, if you ask people what they think of the E-170 and larger they are generally very pleased with it, as United has found recently discovered (they probably spent millions on that study....further proof airline execs are completely retarded...no offense to the retarded).

-Blucher