US Airways Pilots Veer Away From ALPA

[CaptWidgeon]

http://www.thestreet.com/s/us-airwa...alysis/transportation/10378817.html?puc=_tscs

has this story been linked to? if so sorry, i hadn't seen it. if not, now it has.

 

[Tomct]

So let me get this straight. The East guys did not get what they wanted (spoiled child-like) and now they are stomping their feet and crying like a baby! I'm sorry, but if AWA would not have bought you...you guys would be on the street selling auto insurance. Be greatful that you still have jobs! If my dues are spent fighting this BullSh!t (spoiled brat syndrome) then I will be P!SSED! Grow up! Here's an idea...stop this fighting BS and concentrate on improving your SH!TTY contract. YGTBFSM!

 

[VeeOne]

So let me get this straight. The East guys did not get what they wanted (spoiled child-like) and now they are stomping their feet and crying like a baby! I'm sorry, but if AWA would not have bought you...you guys would be on the street selling auto insurance. Be greatful that you still have jobs! If my dues are spent fighting this BullSh!t (spoiled brat syndrome) then I will be P!SSED! Grow up! Here's an idea...stop this fighting BS and concentrate on improving your SH!TTY contract. YGTBFSM!

Actually, it has to do with the pilot group getting screwed twice. Many of the pilots were irritated at the seniority list integration (DOH) when Piedmont, Allegainy (SP?), PSA, and US Air were thrown into the pot. nine years later, the merger policy was rewritten to benafit a certain airline (UNITED) because of a possible merger between USAirways and the previously said airline. Now the seniority thing is REALLY bad for many of them. So, if ALPA can't come up with meaningful merger policy, and won't quit bending it to suit the merger du'jour, then to heck with them APA, SWAPA (the effective Southwest variety), and several of the other independant unions seem to do fine.

Actually, I think it will play out like this.......Alpa will end up staying on property due to a shortfall of ballots to decertify. USAirways east will stonewall the implimentation of the merged list by about two, maybe three years, by which time many of the senior buys will have retired and those that haven't will have maintained 3 years of their current quality of life. It's just a cheap way of throwing up fenses. I don't have a dog in the fight, but it's just my impression of how it will shake down.

Hey Tom, doesn't the "thankful to have a job" routine go against what you swear and yell about over at ASA?

 

[Uniform Shop]

So let me get this straight. The East guys did not get what they wanted (spoiled child-like) and now they are stomping their feet and crying like a baby! I'm sorry, but if AWA would not have bought you...you guys would be on the street selling auto insurance. Be greatful that you still have jobs! If my dues are spent fighting this BullSh!t (spoiled brat syndrome) then I will be P!SSED! Grow up! Here's an idea...stop this fighting BS and concentrate on improving your SH!TTY contract. YGTBFSM!

Let me guess. You haven't been on the other side "YET".

If you were at U.S. Airways you would be doing the same exact thing. The seniority was done by a 3rd party and what's done is done but don't blame them for reacting this way.

By the way, get used to being pissed because your dues will be paying for this type of sh!t for the rest of your career.

Grow up! Here's an idea...stop this fighting BS and concentrate on improving your SH!TTY contract.

Here's an idea. Take your own advice

 

[TWA Dude]

If you were at U.S. Airways you would be doing the same exact thing.

You're wrong and you have no basis for being presumptuous. I, for one, understand that when I agree to binding arbitration I'll have to live by it, come what may.

 

[B6Busdriver]

You're wrong and you have no basis for being presumptuous. I, for one, understand that when I agree to binding arbitration I'll have to live by it, come what may.

Speaking from your unbiased opinion....right?

 

[Uniform Shop]

You're wrong and you have no basis for being presumptuous. I, for one, understand that when I agree to binding arbitration I'll have to live by it, come what may.

Actually, I don't think that's being presumptuous at all. There are thousands of USAir pilots working on this. Do you really think that they are all somehow freaks of nature and acting differently than every other human being would at this point?

I did say what's done is done and we are in agreement that it was binding arbitration so they will have to live with it but you can't possible believe that they wouldn't have this reaction when they found out the ruling.

 

[eaglefly]

Why not just begin transferring the "east" airplanes over to the west side and offer those pilots a west job with the arbitrator stipulations ?

If I were U managment, I'd just bleed the malcontents slowly, rather then have my business held hostage.

 

[Occam's Razor]

That "tinkling" sound in the background?

U management toasting the fracas.

By all means...get another union. Lord knows the reps and officers will all come from a different pilot group...right?

D'oh!

 

[PCL_128]

If you were at U.S. Airways you would be doing the same exact thing.

Wrong.

The seniority was done by a 3rd party and what's done is done but don't blame them for reacting this way.

The AAA pilots voluntarily chose arbitration as a solution to their integration problems. They could have worked with the AWA pilots towards a solution without going to arbitration, but that's not what they chose. So yes, I most certainly can blame them for reacting this way. When you put your future in the hands of an arbitrator, then you had better be prepared to hold on for a wild ride.

NEVER LET SENIORITY INTEGRATION ISSUES GO TO ARBITRATION!!!!!!!!!

 

[Uniform Shop]

Originally Posted by Uniform Shop
If you were at U.S. Airways you would be doing the same exact thing.

Wrong.

Then why are all the USAir pilots acting this way?

Give me a serious and intelligent response as to what you would do if the tables were turned. Would you just say, oh well. Or would you do everything you can to help remedy the situation. Can you guys really blame them?

I'm not arguing the ruling. I'm just saying, can you blame them for being pissed. Whether it was an arbitrators decision or not it still sucks and they are bullsh!t. I hope you would be too. That would at least mean you have a spine.

 

[Heavy Set]

Actually, it has to do with the pilot group getting screwed twice. Many of the pilots were irritated at the seniority list integration (DOH) when Piedmont, Allegainy (SP?), PSA, and US Air were thrown into the pot. nine years later, the merger policy was rewritten to benafit a certain airline (UNITED) because of a possible merger between USAirways and the previously said airline. Now the seniority thing is REALLY bad for many of them. So, if ALPA can't come up with meaningful merger policy, and won't quit bending it to suit the merger du'jour, then to heck with them APA, SWAPA (the effective Southwest variety), and several of the other independant unions seem to do fine.

Actually, I think it will play out like this.......Alpa will end up staying on property due to a shortfall of ballots to decertify. USAirways east will stonewall the implimentation of the merged list by about two, maybe three years, by which time many of the senior buys will have retired and those that haven't will have maintained 3 years of their current quality of life. It's just a cheap way of throwing up fenses. I don't have a dog in the fight, but it's just my impression of how it will shake down.

Hey Tom, doesn't the "thankful to have a job" routine go against what you swear and yell about over at ASA?

Didn't you East guys AGREE to binding arbitration? That is called rolling the dice. If you agree to it, then you should accept the outcome. Your East MEC
chairman even applauded the fact that Nicalau was the guy that was going to do it. You guys really are a bunch of spoiled brats, and it will lead to your downfall. Tomct is right, you need to be concentrating on your combined contract instead of crying like babies.

 

[Grandpa +65]

Why not just begin transferring the "east" airplanes over to the west side and offer those pilots a west job with the arbitrator stipulations ?


West Management is considering this scenario very seriously to shift airplanes to the west.

 

[TWA Dude]

Speaking from your unbiased opinion....right?

What kind of a stupid question is that? I don't hide that I'm an AWA pilot. But just to give you my perspective, at TWA we would've loved for our integration with AA to be arbitrated. I have no idea if the end result would've been better or not but I would've accepted it. This you cannot disprove.

 

[PCL_128]

Then why are all the USAir pilots acting this way?

Because, just like most ALPA pilots, they are uninformed and don't understand the system and the law. I guarantee that most of the supposed "2300" pilots actually believe that they'll get the seniority arbitration overthrown by decertifying ALPA.

Give me a serious and intelligent response as to what you would do if the tables were turned.

I would immediately begin the recall process to remove all current reps that agreed with the arbitration strategy. I would elect reps that vowed to work with the AWA MEC to reach a consensual agreement on fences and other protections that could end this stupid mess and get back to the work of negotiating a joint contract.

At first I really did sympathize with these guys, but now I'm really just tired of all the whining and counter-productive decertification bullsh*^.

 

[TWA Dude]

Do you really think that they are all somehow freaks of nature and acting differently than every other human being would at this point?

Understanding why they're behaving like they are doesn't excuse it. Through no fault of their own their careers have become poop. Like the Gambler's Fallacy they believe they're entitled to get everything back. We at AWA don't share this sense of entitlement. So yes, I do believe they are acting differently than other groups would act.

I did say what's done is done and we are in agreement that it was binding arbitration so they will have to live with it but you can't possible believe that they wouldn't have this reaction when they found out the ruling.

I guess it's our bad that we didn't realize the depth of how much the AAA MEC was deceiving the rank-and-file. Remember the transcripts! The USAir pilots had no idea that Nicolau had told their Merger Committee that DOH (or LOS) was not an option. The USAir pilots received daily reports of the arbitration hearings telling them how great everything was going. The frustrating part now is their misplaced anger -- they're taking it out on the AWA pilots! We didn't deceive them and we didn't craft the Nicolau Award yet we're the ones being sued and being extorted to give unilateral concessions. We have the law and policy on our side. The East has only anger. We'll see which prevails.

 

[Fast43]

Do you really think that they are all somehow freaks of nature and acting differently than every other human being would at this point?

.

YES, EXACTLY!!!

 

[Fast43]

At first I really did sympathize with these guys, but now I'm really just tired of all the whining and counter-productive decertification bullsh*^.

Glad to see that you have come to see what we are truly dealing with. Just exactly how do you reason with people that honestly believe a 3 dollar bill is legal tender. To suggest a 1 or 2 dollar bill as the normal means is total Blastphemy to them.

If you have any Ideas as to making Molasass go uphill in January we could use them about now.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Decertifying ALPA at AAA or UAL or wherever will have catistrophic results...

Amongts other things...

Any decertified group will have no voice in Wash DC, where everything begins and ends. They may join CAPA, but CAPA is limited. Even if CAPA grows as a conglomerate if in house unions at some point the idea of a "one" central union will take hold. And it will come full cirlce again. What's the point except we will be 20 (more) years behind. Management wins again. Just show up, shut up and fly the jet. Sound good?

The regional guys will get thier own representation as the ability to "pay" for their membership will go away. Everything that the regional guys take for granted will be realized. It would be like RI and DE paying for their own "national defense"