US Airways Negotiations at Standstill

[dlredline]

...ALPA leadership is NOT elected to be your "daddy" and make decisions on your behalf...

FA,

While I usually agree with your thoughtful posts, I couldn't let this one pass. U's ALPA MEC did just that (acted like our "daddy") when they arbitrarily decided to give away our earned (and payed for) retirement without a single ratification vote, nor even a road show before hand to explain their actions. I would have liked the opportunity to at least vote on the issue.

Red

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Red,

Very good point. You are correct. My apologies.

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

I wouldnt be too worried that this "new contract" will be a benchmark of the industry.

Anybody with any sense at all will see it for what it is..

When USAIR goes west for the last time, knowbody will be standing around pointing and saying what a great contract they had and how it was good for the company.

While many folks have come up with several reasons why this is happening.The more we try to blame someone else for whats happening the longer this will continue..

These events have been coming for a long time..

Between poor managment and contracts that companies couldnt really afford long term weve created an artifical sense of prosperity that has finally burst..

I just hope that the goverment doesnt prolong this adjustment through selectivly propping up various failing airlines when the natural market processes should prevail.

Where else in the world would a poorly run business losing billions be allowed to continue to operate at a loss while everything about the market says that the business plan/model wont work..

Until a clear plan is developed..the race to the bottom will continue.
Demand will again exceed capacity and prices will rise for those carriers that are smart enough and quick enough to adapt to the new market.

Those that dont/wont arnt going to be around..

Mike

 

[AceCrackshot]

J'accuse MLBWINGBORN of being a management tool! J'accuse!

Actually, I think your analysis is correct, except for emphasis.
Management is almost entirely to blame for the current failures of legacy carriers. Just like TW's management failures that occured in 1960's helped to doom the airline, the inactivity and lethargy of the legacies especially US and UA, in addressing the "LCC threat" that was truly gathering in 1993, not 2003, is the most proximate cause of their current predictment. The union didn't help matters, but seriously, most of the rank and file had learned that every word out of the management mouth was a lie, including "an" and "the." And management signed off on every contract that was unsustainable. Fact.

The one management tactic operationally was the retreat to the fortress hub. This worked well, right up the point where the LCC went into direct competition (MCI, BWI, STL, DEN) or leached from a nearby facility (BWI, ISP, Bay Area), which is to say it didn't work at all. Management's second tactic, which was to try to attack costs in the form of generally of pilot salaries, to offset the loss of revenue. It just didn't do the trick. Why? See strategy one. They were married to the fortress hub, yield management model. Nobody could see past it. The boom of the late 90's help to camoflage these significant shortcomings, and as long as the revolving door of management came and went, and pilots upgraded and retired millionaires, everybody was happy.

Then oil went to $50, and the LLC gained the "critical mass" to be a major player. The simple fact is that all the king's horses and all the king's men aren't going to put anyone back to together again. The majors are in the position of a cold cat shot below V1. Too fast to stop, too slow to fly. They don't have the cash to revitalize their fleets a la Song, and they they are still losing money on full aircraft.

But they haven't had their head out of their collective ass since the Kennedy Administration, and I doubt they will find Jesus anytime soon.

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Then oil went to $50, and the LLC gained the "critical mass" to be a major player.

From the LCCs point of view..As long as you are hedged and have a long term plan for controlling costs the $50 barrel of oil had very little to do with LCCs growth..

Everyone knows that $50 is a short term responce to no real market changes..Only the threat of certain POSSIBLE changes that artifically drove up the price..

On the other hand..People are betting that SWA will be hurting when our fuel hedging runs out..

If this is the the case..Then why is it that you can still hedge oil at $24 to $25 a barrel all the way through 4thQ 2005?

Oh..thats right..You have to have good credit or CASH to play..

Something very few airlines have these days..

Mike

 

[halfmoon]

800 furloughs at UAIR soon? Anyone else heard this?

 

[dlredline]

800 furloughs at UAIR soon? Anyone else heard this?

In the last company proposal, they wanted 775 additional furloughs. The NC subsequently broke off negotiations. To keep this in perspective, that would've put the most junior mainline pilot with a 1986 DOH . . . Nineteen Eighty Six!!!

Unreal.

Red

 

[mnboyev]

Well, I'm not sure where our industry is headed... down seems to be the only way to seek light for these big airlines. I guess Walmart is where everything is headed. Capitalism at its finest? I spent 9 years at NWA in maintenance and watched it erode over the years. The company, every year wanted to farm out more maintenance and utilize third party work. Engine overhauls that were always done in house were disappearing quicker than you could blink. Power by the Hour...Rotables were sent to outside vendors.. Bla Bla Bla..They finally won and closed ATL, It wont be long and the majors will only be interested in performing Line Maintenance. The entry level jobs are almost gone.

The big boys have also let the RJ thing get out of control...ALPA,APA. should have put those kiddos on their mighty list.. do it , get it over with... Yeah they complain about us low fare guys wrecking the industry... Well how bout those guys feeding their hubs ? It has improved slightly, but not enough.. 19/hr FO's... please.... With exception of a few, most regionals have crappy schedules and pay is nick so gut for years.. Believe me, our 85 Green Tail penny pincher jets are not wrecking the pay scales and benefits of legacy carriers. Some which have over 300 feeder birds..??

Management at the big boys are using propaganda to convince labor groups that they must cave in to be competetive. 'We must be more like them low fare guys to make $$$'. Thats a bunch of whoooey. Management for years has thought labor was too powerful. They fully believe career folks are over paid and benefits unworthy of thier position. When are the managers of these companies going to take responsibility for leadership. Steering the organization in a direction that is prosperous and forward thinking... I guess it took Jet Blue, AirTran, SWA, Spirit, America West to Jumpstart their thinking...?? We dont even offer the same product... I have rode on big boys and the little boys... they are Different !!... PAX know that !!

I really feel for the folks at US Air that have given there commitment to that company. It really seems like there should be some sort of guild or broad spanning union that does not allow the most senior dudes to end up with nothing... ?? Maybe this is the only way to protect the contracts that have been fought and negotiated for over the many decades. I fear for the guys who are behind me in this industry. When I started in aviation in 85, it was a pretty good deal. And now ?? Up and down ... I guess that's how it has always been.?? The industry is certainly on a down slope in this period... hope it turns around soon. For everyones sake.

Keep fighting US Air !! You folks cant give up the battle !

 

[On Your Six]

Just say NO!!!!!!! You gotta draw a line in the sand somewhere....


Let's hope that IF USAirways fails (and I stress "IF"), people will be picked up elsewhere as the void is filled in again... C'mon Branson, let's get VA started (even though those wages could be pi$$ poor too)....

 

[100LL... Again!]

If the work can be done by cheaper labor, the company will have very little choice but to seek it out.

If they do not, their competitors will.

A friend of mine who is a mechanic at a major says that the quite a few of the senior guys are lazy, coffee drinking slackers who play the union card if anyone suggests they should get their flabby a$$es to work.

Now, where is the union here?

When the union decides that the worker is not always right, the company may decide that they union is something other than a crowbar inserted into the company's wallet.

Most unions do not try to provide the highest possible service to the company.

They provide what they are willing to provide, and are incensed that the company does not fall all over themselves going on and on about how tlucky they are to have such wonderful employees.

The infantile behavior exhibited by a small percentage of pilots and mechanics damages the company's perception of us.

The refusal of our unions to EVER see a worker at fault puts the final nail in the coffin.

 

[On Your Six]

Too bad USAirways isn't a Chinese airline... Just think, NO UNIONS and no problems with slackers! Then again, everyone would be paid $2 per day in addition to free rice bowls...

 

[AceCrackshot]

Well, as unions go, the IAM is one of the worst to deal with.
The best line I ever heard was this, "If you tell a mechanic to do something for the 'good of the company,' you can go ice skating on his corneas as his eyes glaze over."

The IAM approach to compensation was this...you have X number of airplanes, and they need Y number of mechanics. If Eastern loses 10 airplanes, then Braniff will get 10 more. And those will be IAM guys. It really doesn't matter if they are painted blue, or silver or chartruse. And we don't care who we work for. Therefore, talk to the pilots or FA's or service folks...we ain't listening.

This has kept mechanic income realatively stable (which probably puts them ahead of ALPA) but, they are mercs when it comes to any concept of loyality to the firm. Its been beat out of them by management. However, its now brought them power by the hour, 3rd party/3rd nation maint. etc. The old calculus of the minimum required number of mechanics industry wide is becoming a quaint notion, like a pension.

But then, I have enjoyed living a middle class life in a first world nation. At least I'll be able to tell my kids what it was like.

 

[100LL... Again!]

My point is this:


You must have a system to keep the playing field level.

Let's suppose ONE airline outsources maint.

If their competitor decided not to because they don't want to outsource jobs, they will lose market share.

If John Q. Public does not care or know about such outsourcing, the company's loyalty to their workers will be their economic downfall.

You either need a binding agreement or law to prevent said outsourcing, and it must apply to everyone.

This is why criticizing new pilots for accepting fast-food wages to fly airplanes is stupid.

If they don't take the job, someone else will.

Either create a guild or quit bit-ching.