US Airways goes after Senior Pilots

[lowecur]

In their new proposal to the pilots, UAIR has asked for increased concessions including about 19.5% in salary. The new contract also seeks permission to terminate contracts with many senior pilots. Fred Freshwater are you listening? Conjecture is that these will be 757 and 767 pilots, but I believe it will be a move to eliminate their most senior people no matter what they are flying. It's too bad they couldn't do this with Baggage and FA's that are still making more money than some of the pilots at MDA.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04266/383212.stm

 

[michael707767]

In their new proposal to the pilots, UAIR has asked for increased concessions including about 19.5% in salary. The new contract also seeks permission to terminate contracts with many senior pilots.

Its not really accurate to imply they are targeting senior pilots. What they want to do is furlough without regard to seniority. In other words, if they park the 737s, furlough only the 737 pilots without having to go to the time and expense to furlough the junior most people and retrain others as they get displaced from the 737 to other aircraft.

Frankly, this is something I personally would strike over, even though it would shut the company down.

 

[PurpleTail]

So basically mgmt wants the ability to just go through and pick and choice who they want to keep and who they want to fire/furlough. This has got to be an all time low. Why don't they just take whatever is left of the contract and just use it as toilet paper, what is it really worth these days?

It is so sad to see a completely incompetent group of suits ruin so many pilots lives that have been nothing but dedicated and loyal to a company for 20-25+ years. It doesn't look good but I hope the best for the pilots of Big U.

 

[surplus1]

If management at U succeeds in destroying the seniority system it would be the perfect wet dream for airline executives; a victory of monumental porportions.

If the pilots let them do this without every last one walking away from USAirways, then we deserve whatever they choose to give us.

Unfettered Capitalism in its finest hour; the "perfect storm".

 

[lowecur]

Its not really accurate to imply they are targeting senior pilots. What they want to do is furlough without regard to seniority. In other words, if they park the 737s, furlough only the 737 pilots without having to go to the time and expense to furlough the junior most people and retrain others as they get displaced from the 737 to other aircraft.

Frankly, this is something I personally would strike over, even though it would shut the company down.

Anyway you look at it, this would give mgt the option to whittle the senior pilot's from the payroll. There is no way I see the pilot's okaying this deal, so I believe it will go to 1113. I'm sure UAIR mgt is preparing a revised business plan for the judge that could cut the company in half, and leave most of the flying in the hands of the 319/320/321 pilots and MDA. This would cut the risk of a strike, as pilots would be scrambling just to maintain a job. I know the Feds still believe that Freshwater and his senior compatriates sent the company to 11 with their vote, and you may see pressure on the bankruptcy judge to OK this type of a deal.

 

[surplus1]

For practical purposes every pilot that currently remains at USAir is a "senior" pilot.

I think the end is near.

 

[michael707767]

Anyway you look at it, this would give mgt the option to whittle the senior pilot's from the payroll.

True, but you miss my point. Its not just senior pilots. If the 737 fleet is parked, some captains, who are senior, will get furloughed, while some F/Os, who are junior will get furloughed too. Tell me how that targets the senior pilots?

 

[dlredline]

Its not really accurate to imply they are targeting senior pilots. What they want to do is furlough without regard to seniority. In other words, if they park the 737s, furlough only the 737 pilots without having to go to the time and expense to furlough the junior most people and retrain others as they get displaced from the 737 to other aircraft.

Frankly, this is something I personally would strike over, even though it would shut the company down.

Michael,

This is an accurate statement. I've read the 9/20 contract proposal from the company (LOA93), and the "furlough without regard to seniority" clause is definetly there. But something just as ominous is right behind it, there on page 23. This new clause deletes future furlough pilots the opportunity to "bump" down to MDA as necessary. In other words, USAirways will soon park the entire Boeing fleet (767s, 757s, and 737s), furlough all of the pilots on them, and not provide them the opportunity to work at MDA, eventhough everyone at MDA is "junior" to those future furloughees.

There are multiple abrogations of the seniority system with this proposal. IMHO, there is no way the PIT/PHL representatives on the MEC will agree to this. If that's the case, and USAirways goes for an 1113(e) ruling to implement this clause immediately and begins parking Boeings and furloughing out of seniority, a strike would be authorized within hours, effectively killing USAirways. Total corporate suicide on Bronner's part. I'd be surpirsed if we didn't start hearing rumbles of an ALPA SOS (suspension of service) with this. But then again, we haven't heard a thing from Duane Worthe as 3500 of it's members ride a mismanaged airline down in flames, so why would he step to the plate and earn his $400k/year now?

Red

 

[lowecur]

True, but you miss my point. Its not just senior pilots. If the 737 fleet is parked, some captains, who are senior, will get furloughed, while some F/Os, who are junior will get furloughed too. Tell me how that targets the senior pilots?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with their existing contract those senior CA's can bump a junior CA into furlough even if it means retraining on a different type.

I wonder how the seniority compares between fleet types? I would think the real senior guys are on the 330's, 757's, and 767's. You may also find that there are many more senior pilots on the 737 fleet than the newer 319, 320, and 321. This saves the company lots of $$$.

 

[dlredline]

For practical purposes every pilot that currently remains at USAir is a "senior" pilot. . .

Very true, and thank you for pointing that out.

Red

 

[michael707767]

Very true, and thank you for pointing that out.

Red

seniority is a relative thing. An 18 year 737 FO at USAir is really very junior, while a 4 year A320 captain at JetBlue is very senior.

 

[On Your Six]

This makes me sick. What USAirways' management is trying to do could set a bad precedent and adversely impact airline labor relations for GENERATIONS to come...

Seriously, strike and just shut it down. Other airlines will fill the void and new jobs will be created to take up some of the slack. Who wants to work for these jacka$$es in the future anyway?????? Even if these drastic changes are made, there is no guarantee USAirways will survive the high fuel costs and intense East Coast competititon - but the bar will be lowered for everyone else...

 

[surplus1]

Dlredline,

I sympathize fully with the U pilots and believe you should reject this decimation of seniority proposal, even if it results in the end of U. But, I have to ask.

When the U pilots proposed and subsequently agreed to a system that forced the abrogation of seniority at every regional carrier affiliated with U, how come they were not at all concerned about the seniority issues or precedents?

Why is it OK for U pilots to force other ALPA pilots to relinquish their seniority in favor of the U pilots, but it is not OK for the company to ask U pilots to give up their own seniority in favor of other U pilots?

It seems like U pilots have already given the company the idea that they will trash seniority for self-interest. The only thing that's changed is whose seniority is now likely to be thrashed.

I'm afraid there are lots of rats in ALPA's belfry.

 

[reepicheep]

Think about it - if they park the 737's en masse, who the heck is going to show up for their last trip before being uncerimoniously tossed on the street? Who will be around to fly 'em to Mojave? I guarantee you I ain't showin' up. What do they do with the thousands of passengers who are stranded due to the sudden vanishing of a third of the fleet? This is simply not a viable alternative.

 

[NuGuy]

Hey all,

I'm pretty much in agreement. Seniority is the rock on which everything is built on, the holiest of holies.. If US management succeeds in aborgating that as a imposed condition of employment, you can bet the pilots would walk away.

Forunately, imposed work conditions eliminate the "cooling off period" of the RLA. If the pilot group votes it down, you can pretty much walk right away.

I agree with others...this is a set-up, plain and simple. If management wins, they get an unthinkable precedent in the industry, and if they lose, they get their scapegoat for liquidation.

Nu

 

[flyingitalian]

Lowecure, Im suprised you pointed this out. Training costs and differing fleet types are extremely costly to airlines and the cost to retrain is significant. So significant that it can sometimes make the difference between liquidation and continued business in US Air's case, and chap 11 or not in Delta's case. This does not bode well for the sales of your beloved E1x0 series of aircraft, becasue in fact CASM is not correctly calculated when these aircraft are added as the X fleet type within an airline.

 

[lowecur]

Lowecure, Im suprised you pointed this out. Why? Training costs and differing fleet types are extremely costly to airlines and the cost to retrain is significant. Yup! So significant that it can sometimes make the difference between liquidation and continued business in US Air's case, and chap 11 or not in Delta's case. This does not bode well for the sales of your beloved E1x0 series of aircraft, becasue in fact CASM is not correctly calculated when these aircraft are added as the X fleet type within an airline. Huh? My guess is this will be a coup for ERJ, providing the pilot's don't shut it down. I'd look for another large order that will include 190's for MDA, with the elimination of MESA and an expanded role for Republic as they place their 170's and 190's with UAIR. It's my guess that a strike will be called for after 1113, but a new meaning to the word SCAB will surface.

.....

 

[Dizel8]

Considering that EMB has stopped deliveries to U pending the outcome of this latest snafu, I have my doubts hat they will be jumping all over MDA.

OTOH, this might be a good opportunity for those carriers who wishes to aquire 170's, but did not have orders, to throw their name in the hat!

I think, sad as it is, that U is about done, unless changes are coming quickly. I do not think, that the employees of U will go for this latest BS, in the hopes, that THIS time will be different.

 

[General Lee]

I had heard that Leo Mullin wanted to do this right after 9-11, but Dave Bushy told him that could NOT happen.


As far as this happening at USAir, it would be wrong and I hope they stand up to this, again.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SWA/FO]

Its done... Don't run to the bank, just don't show up for work.