US Airways & Contract Express Carriers

[Vref75]

What is going one with the mainline pilots and the WO?

Will this affect the contract express carriers for US Airways like Mesa, Shuttle America, Colgan, and so forth?

Will the mainline US Airways default their contract to the contract carriers?

Will the mainline take the routes assigned to the contract carriers back and leave them on their own?

Any information on this is greatly appreciated.....

 

[BoredToDeath]

Vref,

Answers to your questions:

1. What is going one with the mainline pilots and the WO? Back Stabbing

2. Will this affect the contract express carriers for US Airways like Mesa, Shuttle America, Colgan, and so forth?
One can only hope so.

3. Will the mainline US Airways default their contract to the contract carriers?
That would be a good start.

4.Will the mainline take the routes assigned to the contract carriers back and leave them on their own?
I doubt it, but I still pray.

 

[psw737]

Spoken like a true professional!!!!

 

[Vref75]

Please reply and answer the questions with valid answers .

Many thanks, i'm still looking for answers among the US Airways Express piots who knows some or more about what's happening.

Regards to everyone.

 

[FR8mastr]

unfortunetely, bored's answers are pretty much the truth. If you have a specific question I will try and answer it to the best of my knowledge. To give an overview of the entire situation would require a novel.

 

[WSurf]

Here's what I know from the PDT side of things. We just had our MEC do a phone survey that asked the pilot group if we would fly the RJ for Dash 8 300 pay, take concessions on our current contract (Min. day, Health etc). The survey came back with us basically saying NO WAY. So we will present that to management on Monday. Basically we feel why in the hell should we take pay cuts when we make money for the Group!
Now are bids are out late because they are sending 4 planes back because there leases are up. Looking to get rid of 14 A/C by the end of the year. So look for some furloughs, then they want to add RJ's on the WO's after Potomic (Gov. Loan=begining of Potomic). 50% which will be mainline Furloughs, with capt. pay! Hmmm, we take concessions to save company and they do that!!!!!!!!!!! Its a big MESS at PDT, basically we don't know what the hell is going on... Thats about all I know!

 

[BoredToDeath]

PSW737,

Thanks for the compliment!

Vref,

I could go on to write alot on each of the questions you asked, but I thought it best to keep it simple. Like Fr8 said its a long story.

Re-reading my post there does seem to be some anger in my words and I'll try to explain.

We at PSA are completely left in the dark. Just about a week ago our MEC ratified(sp) a contract that we turned down. Although it has been said that there are some improvments, it still sounds like the same thing we shot down, and they ratify it without a vote by the pilot group. BIG BALLS! To top it off it will take months before the whole thing is in effect. EVEN BIGGER BALLS!! To add to the fustration they're in talks with managment over LOA 81 and the pilot group has not even been asked if we would be willing to let this happen. THE BIGGEST BALLS!!!

To my fellow ALG and PDT pilots I feel that our MEC is selling you out and becoming nothing more than the lowest bidder. A very large amount of the PSA pilots do not agree with our MECs actions in the past and coming weeks, so please accept my appologies(sp) now.

Vref,

I think you can see why we don't want contract airlines here, we're fighting for our lives. With the amount of mainline pilots on the street we don't need to have (Mesa, CCAir, Colgan, Chatuaqua(sp), Shuttle America, Air Midwest, and TSA flying as US Airways Express when we already have three WO Express airlines that can do the job just fine.

We need to return the mainline pilots to mainline, get rid of the contract carriers and update the fleet of the WO. Once again I'm keeping it simple. But to answer your questions 2.-4. I don't think the contract carriers will feel much pain unless they take the Jets 4 Jobs deal.

See ya

 

[chperplt]

BoredToDeath

Do you honestly think that Colgan is taking business away from you guys at PSA? Why don't you take a look at our route structure and see where were predominately fly. 90+% of our routes are essential air service routes that Colgan owns. We fly routes that WE own, and feed US Airways the business. US Airways, for the most part, does not feed us business.

Do you want to take your 328 from BOS to RUT or BOS TO AUG and RKD? How about BOS to BHB? Most of the airports we fly into will not support an aircraft larger than a 1900 anyway...

 

[vgna man]

Why does the bashing of Contract carriers continue? Can you guys have an intelligent conversation without having to criticize other pilot groups? We all share the same love the same proffesion. That is getting into a cockpit every time we go to work. Not that many people have that same privilage we all have. Just consider yourself one of the few lucky ones.

When I read the messages in this board, and someone is insulting another pilot group your not only insulting that group of pilots but you are insulting every person that calls the cockpit its office. We are suppose to be all brothers belonging to the an union(most of us). If you are going to criticize us make sure you get all the facts first. When we have a contract, you have to comply by it. Of course I would prefer a better contract that would allowed me to improve my lifestyle but I'll wait until we get it. For now I have to honor my contract, if I don't I am disrespecting my fellow pilots and i am not honoring my word I gave the company when I accepted this job.

In conclusion, do not insult us when we are trying to do the same thing you are all trying to do which is to bring food to our family in a legitimate way. By abiding to our contract and the ALPA constitution

Sincerely,
A Pilot

 

[BoredToDeath]

Chperplt,

I would venture to say that you do a fantastic job at Colgan, but the point is US Airways Group Flying needs to stay within the group ie: Mainline - PDT - ALG - PSA.

The routes that you have mententioned may not be the most glamourous but its still a route that we at PSA don't fly. I just looked at your web site and your airline currently flys to 19 airports that we at PSA do not serve, but could. If we had those airports it would mean growth for the WO instead of the furloughs and/or terminations currently going on at PDT and ALG.

Now as far as your statement about the airport not supporting anything larger than a 1900, I don't know if your talking about people or runway length, but I'll address both. It's been said that the 328 needs 7 people to break even and so far the shortest runway I've landed on is RWY 22 at DCA 4911' I forgot what our required min RWY lenght is, some other PSAers please let me know. But I'm pretty sure we could land where your going.

Don't get me wrong I'm not agaisnt you or your airline but we the WO need to look out for ourselves just like Mainline is looking out for themselves. Growth at Mainline should happen before growth at a WO Express carrier and growth at a WO Express should happen before any growth at a contract airline flying under the US Airways name.

 

[BoredToDeath]

vgna man,

You would be hard pressed to find any post that I have written where I am Bashing, as you put it, another pilot group. Although my first post on this thread my have a tone of anger, more like frustration, I have never Bashed or called anyone a derogitory(sp) name.

Thanks for playing.

 

[chperplt]

BoredToDeath

I understand what you are saying and do not disagree that the majority of express flying should be given to the WOs..

The airports mentioned above do not meet the requirements of FAR 139 for aircraft with 20 seats or more. Many of our routes take us to these airports. My point being that not all, but much of our flying does not take away from you guys whatsoever.

Chperplt

 

[vgna man]

Welcome to the world of business? Aviation is a business. And like any other business a company will try to find the less expensive way to conduct is business in order to make money. Unfortunatlly, USairways has been unsucesfull to achieve this goal. Some of it has been because of the unfortunate times we faced last year and some of it has been bad management. It is not because of any of the pilot groups at mainline, Express carriers either WO or contract.

And we will have to learn how to live this way because aviation will always be a business. And competiton is going to exist where the winner will be who ever makes a profit. So we have to make sure this is accomplish without having to sacrifice any of our jobs.

ATT
A Contract Pilot

 

[sabreliner]

Welcome to the world of business? Aviation is a business. And like any other business a company will try to find the less expensive way to conduct is business in order to make money. Unfortunatlly, USairways has been unsucesfull to achieve this goal. Some of it has been because of the unfortunate times we faced last year and some of it has been bad management. It is not because of any of the pilot groups at mainline, Express carriers either WO or contract.

And we will have to learn how to live this way because aviation will always be a business. And competiton is going to exist where the winner will be who ever makes a profit. So we have to make sure this is accomplish without having to sacrifice any of our jobs.

ATT
A Contract Pilot

Hmm...That's funny. The WO's make group a ton of money, so your argument doesn't hold water. Also, the contract carriers are growing not because they are better, but because they get paid less, and have much worse working conditions. But, they are happy to grow, and undercut the pilots that have worked hard to improve the profession.

 

[BoredToDeath]

vgna man,

"Aviation is a business. And like any other business a company will try to find the less expensive way to conduct is business in order to make money. "

Carefull! Are you saying that all the expensive flying of Mainline and the WO should be contracted out so that US Airways can be the Contract Carrier of Choice.

"Some of it has been because of the unfortunate times we faced last year and some of it has been bad management. It is not because of any of the pilot groups at mainline, Express carriers either WO or contract. "

Actually this statement is false. Nearlly all of our groups problems arise from poor managment and the Mainline MECs lack of vision in the past with reguard to RJs/SJs.

"And competiton is going to exist where the winner will be who ever makes a profit. "

Explain to me why you think competion between US Airways Group Flying and contract carriers should exist in the first place.

Are you trying to bait me?

 

[BoredToDeath]

Chperplt,

Thank you for the refreasher of FAR 139. I will look at each of the airports you serve so I can make a more educated argument.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>But, they are happy to grow, and undercut the pilots that have worked hard to improve the profession.<<<

Now THAT is funny!!

I am quite humbled to know that the years of airline flying I have done for non-W/O USAirways Express companies has been damaging to the profession... I guess I haven't worked as hard as you do, either.

What a load.

 

[PUflight]

To throw a wrench into all this discussion, where do you all think Chautauqua is going?

 

[Capt.SpongeBob]

It is my opinion that Chautauqua will be receiving more jets:

1. They have recalled most if not all of their "fired" pilots.
2. They have started interviewing again.
3. They are sending their SAAB's to Shuttle America.
4. Republic Airways upcoming IPO.
5. Wexford's deep pockets.

As far as the WO pilots complaining about outscourcing of "their" flying. In this economy it will be hard for you to have your cake and eat it too (industry leading wages & benefits/ Increased flying opportunities). The market will dictate what will happen. Best of luck to all.

 

[erjdriver]

Actually, CHQ is hiring because we cut too much to begin with, and we are expanding the AWA codeshare (5 more 145 to come).
The Saab went to SA because, according to management, they (Saab) were loosing money (yeah, right!).
The CHQ pilot group doesn't seem to be interested in the j4j, and it doesn't look like BB is all over it either.
Hope those jets will go to the WO, which have been *crew up by management for so long.

 

[Flufdriver]

News for U

USAIRWAYS TO INSTALL SICK-SACKS ON SEATBACKS AT UPCOMING SHAREHOLDERS MEETING

Wall Street Journal - USAirways, the struggling Charlotte-based airline, announced today that it will be the first airline to comply with new NTSB and FBI recommendations and install sick-sack bags in the seatbacks of all chairs at this years shareholder meeting."We aren't going to wait for the other airlines to comply, we want to be the first," said Peter Gazinia, USAirways Chief Financial Officer. "When our annual income sheet is shown to our shareholders, we are expecting a regurgatory reaction, one of Bibical proportions, and we will be ready for it."Vice President of Marketing, Robin Usblind, added this, "I will liken our shareholder's meeting to a Roman Vomitorium, I fully expect to be bathed in the vomit of nauseous and angry strangers."
Shareholder sentiment like this is expected due to a price drop of the stock (U) from $60 to $2 within the last few years.
"I wouldn't say we are scared," said Gazinia, "Our bile-volume analysts are predicting anywhere from 2.5 to 2.8 metric tons of bile, water, Diet Coke, and partially digested pretzels and snack mix to become propelled and airborne within the first 15 seconds of the introduction of our company's balance sheet, with 1.5 more metric tons expected within the following 15 seconds. So as you can see, we are prepared for it.""No they aren't," counters Lehman Brothers analyst, Harry Ballzack. "While I do agree that they are prepared for the vomit, they are ill prepared for the
expected gastrointestinal distress that is expected when they give their forecast for the company's future. Our numbers-guys here at Lehman Brothers are predicting a total and complete defacatorial breakdown when management explains their plans for growth and expansion. We are downgrading USAirways
from a "sell" to a "sell, even for Venezuelan currency."
Analysts at Morgan Stanley Dean Witter agree. "Imagine a thousand people eating a 2 boxes of Bran Cereal each, then washing 6 ExLax tablets down with a gallon of prune juice...if you can do that, then you are imaging what USAirways has on its hands, a diarrhetic castrophe."Hugh Jass, analyst at T Rowe Price Investments, said this in a telephone interview late yesterday, "I am not going to go the meeting. I am actually nervous about the decibel level when the shareholders bowels become unrestrained. That, along with the inevitable plague of the brown snakes, is keeping me away. I think USAirways will be surprised Tuesday, they will not come out of this smelling like roses.

 

[samjack]

OH MY GOSH!!!! Is that the funniest thing you have ever read in your life! I couldn't stop laughing. This guy is good. No, not really. What you need to do is get a life. You know the best part, he thinks that everyone is laughing with him when really, well, we are laughing at you Fluf. You really aren't funny, go back and play your Dungeons and Dragons and wait for "the mother ship" to come and take you to your home planet. Now thats funny!

 

[eddie]

Samjack, why are you so hostile?

 

[bluestuck]

Dude, I thought it was hilarious...

 

[getonit]

Could someone explain to me how PDT is making a "ton of money"? My understanding is that PDT gets paid the same amount of money to fly an airplane, if there is 1 person on board versus 50 people on board. If mainline is paying too much for the PDT service, PDT is making money but the mainline consolidated financial operation will show a loss because there is not enough passenger traffic to justify what they paid PDT. If PDT is so confident they "are making money" see if they can spin themselves off as an independent company.

 

[samjack]

Wait wait wait, so what you are saying is that PDT gets paid the same if they have 0 people on a flight as if they fill the plane? Thats funny because there would be absolutely no growth if that was true. In case you didn't know, PDT is filling the crap out of their planes and probably make up a very large percentage of income for mainline. If PDT carries 6 people, the flight makes money. And according to what you are saying, then all of that profit goes to mainline. I guess I need you to clarify how you meant that last message. As for if PDT went of on their own, your right. They probably wouldn't last. Neither would Mesaba, Express one, continental express, american eagle etc. Regionals live off of mainline to get people to their connecting flights and thats what fills the plane. Saying that is not a fair assumption unless you include all regionals or at least a majority of them.

 

[InstructorPuke]

Real glad I didnt take the Alleghany job offer!!
whew

 

[WSurf]

Fact: US Airways is owned by US Air Group Fact: PDT, PSA, and ALG are the three other, independent companies owned by US Air Group. Fact: US Airways financial problems have NOTHING TO DO with the wholly owneds. Fact: The wholly owneds have no reason to give US Air Group any concessions because it is not in financial difficulty, it's holding US Airways is. Fact: The wholly owneds are so used to considering themselves a part of US Airways, that they mistakenly think that they have to give relief to Airways, even though it is A SEPARATE COMPANY, who's balance sheet DOES NOT REFLECT INCOME OR COSTS INCURRED BY the wholly oweneds. Any concessions that any of the wholly owneds give to US Air Group are unwarranted! Group is not in trouble... Airways is!... and Airways is a separate company.
Ford and Harrison, and ALPA (who represent it's wealthy airline members), are smart enough to know that most of us don't see this distinction, and are thus willing to consider giving concessions because we think we are part of US Airways (the airline), and THEY are in trouble.
Fact: Now that the media has announced Seigle's plan for 300 RJs, and the Airways pilots have said that they will consider the plan if it doesn't take away main line flying... their Jets for Jobs program has lost it's spark. There is NO LONGER A THREAT! THEY HAVE TO LET THE WHOLLY OWNEDS FLY THE JETS TO SURVIVE!
We must stand together, and give up NOTHING, or go down in history as the fools who gave what they did not have to. There is no hurry. He who concedes first, allows himself to be undercut first. Let's not play into their hands with a bidding war!
Solidarity NOW!!!

 

[FR8mastr]

Absolutely right!!!!! Now we just need to convince the PDT MEC to quit trying to play hero and stick with the other WO's I don't know if the WO's are immune to groups financial woes, but the bottom line is, you are correct with have to stick together. As Benjemin Franklin said " we might as well hang together, as we will surely hang apart"