US Airway news - not good

[SWA/FO]

Reuters
Judge: US Air Can Terminate Pension Plan
Saturday March 1, 8:54 pm ET


AKEXANDRIA, Va. (Reuters) - A federal judge ruled on Saturday that US Airways Group Inc. (OTC BB:UAWGQ.OB - News) could terminate its pilots pension plan, saying it was a disheartening option to help save the bankrupt carrier.
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The decision by Judge Stephen Mitchell of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Eastern District of Virginia clears the way for the company to seek federal government approval of its proposal to terminate the pension plan and replace it with a cheaper one.

Mitchell said the airline must still resolve questions about whether the proposal violates the pilots contract. US Airways called for immediate negotiations with the Air Line Pilots Association (News - Websites) to resolve the matter.

A union spokesman had no immediate comment other than to say it would explore its options.

The pension plan covers 3,600 active and 1,100 retired pilots, some of whom could lose up to 75 percent of their benefits under the proposal.

US Airways says it can no longer afford to maintain that fund, which has liabilities of $1.6 billion. The company says there are no other options to terminating the plan.

The company has said resolving the pension question is necessary to receive $200 million in emergency financing and a $1 billion government-backed loan.

US Airways hopes to emerge from bankruptcy by the end of this month

 

[Boeingman]

If anyone out there thinks their pensions are safe they are hiding their heads in the sand. With the current grossly underfunded plans at all the airlines, these CEO's are wetting their pants over this decision. Some of the plans are behind by several billion dollars. I thought I read DAL was the most underfunded at 4.2 billion.

Siegel has stated they MUST resolve the issue by 3/31 to emerge from BK. I personally can not see this getting resolved in 29 days.

Any comments now from those who wish to force mandatory retirement at 60? With these plans going up in smoke in truly puts a new perspective on things.

To save server space don't anyone bother flaming me about "senior pilots keeping age 60" yada yada yada. My retirement funds wouldn't even cover my personal and business taxes. I learned a long time ago to NEVER count on your employer (especially an airline) to see you financially through the retirement years.

 

[CoopDog]

Coming soon: "Airline CEO Survivor"

Super Dave must be dance'n the Macarena this evening.

And Carty, Mullin, and Bethune must all be grin'n like a jackass eat'n briars tonight.

Sorry, I didn't mention the UAL guy. Sounds like he may not be around long enough to join the party, but I'm sure whoever ends up in charge there will be pounding on the judge's door fairly soon as well.

Very few of these cats ever have an original idea, and they love to play follow the leader.....except in this case, it's more like a bad episode of Survivor.

 

[spinup]

Where is ALPA national????

Disgusting! I for one will stand with any AAA pilot on this. This is truly a call to all pilots. AAA folks, tell us how we can help.

Fraternally,

Spinup

 

[Networ-King]

Anyone know of a really good sniper for hire? With this news don't be surprised if 30 year professional pilot with USAir and no retirement ends up going over the edge. Man things just getting better and better. I hope you guys really get this bastard........ somehow!!!!!!! .

God speed

 

[Networ-King]

Anyone know of a really good sniper for hire? With this news don't be surprised if 30 year professional pilot with USAir and no retirement ends up going over the edge. Man things just keep getting better and better. I hope you guys really get this bastard........ somehow!!!!!!! .

God speed

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Anyone know of a really good sniper for hire? With this news don't be surprised if 30 year professional pilot with USAir and no retirement ends up going over the edge.

Hey look, if Frank Lorenzo never got "Whacked", nobody is going to get it.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Hey look, if Frank Lorenzo never got "Whacked", nobody is going to get it.

Be careful what you post guys. It's a sensitive issue and one that could cause many to go over the edge. Ziggy1

 

[CitationLover]

get a clue

Couple of notes.

1) ALPA could care less about retirees. They only care about active members who pay their dues on time. Any union uses retirement plans as bargaining concessions (ie they throw it out as a want knowing it will be cut, when it is it is viewed as a concession from the union).

2) Age 60 mandatory retirement is written into FEDERAL LAW. IRC Section 401. It will take an act of congress to change this. Blame the congress in 1974 who wrote this into ERISA.

3) If you make over $100k for over 15 yrs you should have your own nest egg saved up, especially considering the instability of the airline industry (do you remember Eastern, TWA, PanAm, etc)?

4) USAirways execs, whose unfunded executive pensions will probably all be paid, need to run quickly before they are "tarred and feathered". These idiots should someway be held accountable for the mess USAirways is in.

 

[rican]

When is enough enough? I thinks it's about time for a mass ALPA exodus.

 

[reepicheep]

What the judge said is the company can't afford the current pension but he's not going to unilaterally throw it out it must be resolved under RLA law. A grievance has already been filed by ALPA and negotiations will likely resume shortly. The pension as we know it is gone but if the company wants to exit CH.11 by March 31 they are going to have to sweeten the pot on their "new" plan.

Too many examples to go into detail, but during the past week in court it was obvious that what we are dealing with at US Airways is a band of liers, thieves, and crooks. Management did not make any friends with the judge.

 

[blzr]

I think they should go after Wolf and Gangwald for concessions back to their date of hire. Those two didn't do ANYTHING for U.S. Airways but paint the airplanes Blue.. Bright Idea!! anyway, USA Today said they each got a $35 million parachute? what's that all about..

Another thing, kinda sad, but true. I overheard alot of talk in Clt on Friday RE that USA Today article. Seems people have LITTLE or No sympathy for those that make $275k/year and are now upset that their pensions are gone. Oh well..

It's still wrong, but I don't think the public really cares, and are a bit miffed about having their tax dollars bailing out a disfunctional airline anyway. I sure hope all this works out, ang good luck to all of us that are affected.

 

[LASvegas777]

the next move for airline MGT is going to stop any type of 401k match.

 

[General Lee]

ALPA has to stand strong on this one---and unfortunately the USAir pilots might suffer. It is not right what they are doing, but their company is sinking. Do you stand up and fight with a good possibility of losing it all, or do you take it like a punching bag and retire with hardly nothing? The news of this has really scared a lot of senior Delta pilots, and the word is that over 1000 pilots nearing retirement have INQUIRED to the Delta Management about what their lump sums might be etc.... Apparently May will be a huge retirement month---which is good news for the furloughs at least.... If the senior guys want to retire with a good lump sum and go golf, good for them--and it will help the junior guys at the same time.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[CitationLover]

entitled?

lasvegas - why feel entitled to a 401k match? it is called a benefit and is not written in stone.

fyi - usairways would love to dump the pension (a variable cost structure) for a 401k match (a fixed cost structure). this is why mgmt is shifting most pensions towards cash balance plans (a pension that behaves like a 401k and has more of a fixed cost structure).

alpa won't care until delta or united are affected. that's where alpa's driving force is.

 

[rjcap]

Gen Lee,

What are the stipulations for pilots to elect early retirment?

What is the lead time to take early retirment. i.e. submitting paper work etc. ?

 

[WrightAvia]

HEY ARENT YOU GUYS LISTENING TO ZIGY

It's a sensitive issue, you could put someone over the edge talking about this stuff. I mean after all, these guys are trusted with multi million dollar planes and hundreds of lives. They even used that fact to argue having GUNS in the cockpit...so be nice and talk about nice things. Don't get any body over the edge by talking about current events or financial news on this pilots bulletin board.

 

[blzr]

General Lee

On the contrary, I think Airways is going to be just fine. All the other majors WILL have to go through restructuring at some point. We'll be out of this mess by summer if all goes as planned, and watch from the sidelines while the others go through the same thing. Hopefully yall have taken notes on how management has played us, and can come up with a better defense.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Re: HEY ARENT YOU GUYS LISTENING TO ZIGY

It's a sensitive issue, you could put someone over the edge talking about this stuff. I mean after all, these guys are trusted with multi million dollar planes and hundreds of lives. They even used that fact to argue having GUNS in the cockpit...so be nice and talk about nice things. Don't get any body over the edge by talking about current events or financial news on this pilots bulletin board.

You must have misunderstood my post. Talking about current events is what this place is all about. Asking if "anyone knows a good sniper for hire" and "I hope someone gets the bastard" is not. Pilots are not immune from going over the edge and a 30 year retiree with a stolen pension and a gun can be a real life issue. Not just careless talk on a pilot forum. Those type of comments did stop after my post and the conversation got back on track about issues and news. I think/hope they did listen. Ziggy1

 

[blzr]

Somebody help me out here. Did ALPA really negotiate in secret with US AIR management and agree on pention termination? If that is so, sounds rather underhanded. It was in a blurb in the MONEY section of the USA TODAY. Any union people got any info on this?

 

[HA25]

If its between jobs at 1/2 their wages, or keeping their pention.. I wonder which one they'll take?

I'll bet a lot of those senior guys at UslessAir will want to take their pention and run... God Speed.

 

[LearLove]

from us daily

******** U S A I R W A Y S T O D A Y ********

Monday, March 3, 2003

1/A Special Bulletin Saturday evening reported a
decision by U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Stephen
Mitchell that US Airways has met the financial
standards for a distress termination of the defined
benefit pension plan for its pilots. In response to
Judge Mitchell's decision, President and CEO Dave
Siegel said that US Airways and representatives of ALPA
should begin immediate negotiations. "The company
remains committed to providing $850 million over the
next seven years to fund a new pension plan for our
active pilots," said Siegel. "We have taken the
steps to terminate the existing plan only after we had
exhausted all other alternatives. But as we
demonstrated to the court over four days of testimony,
we cannot meet the financial obligations of the
existing plan and emerge from bankruptcy protection
without taking the action."

Siegel reiterated comments from his testimony in court
on Friday when he said that the airline's pilots had
shown tremendous leadership and sacrifice throughout
the company's restructuring process. "We regret the
impact that the plan termination will have on our
pilots but the ultimate goal must be to save this
airline and the jobs of almost 35,000 dedicated
employees. We respect ALPA's efforts to represent the
interests of its members and believe we can find a
mutually achieved solution to implement a new pension
plan." Please see the Special Bulletin for more
details.

2/The Department of Transportation has released its
March Air Travel Consumer Report, which contains
January 2003 statistics for ten major U.S. carriers.
US Airways ranked fifth in consumer complaints for
January 2003 with 1.20 complaints per 100,000
enplanements, and was equivalent to its January 2002
ranking. US Airways' January 2003 seventh-place ontime
performance ranking of 82.1 percent, which reflected
the impact of this winter's extreme weather conditions,
was slightly below the January 2002 level. US Airways'
3.95 percent fourth-place finish for number of
mishandled baggage in January 2003, was just below the
January 2002 level. Denied boarding statistics fell
slightly from last year to a January 2003 fifth-place
ranking at .66 percent per 10,000 passengers.

 

[Flying Freddie]

I paid ALPA dues for years and when I was out of work the support stopped. I found out the errors of false pride. That is why I am jerking gear today. Never will I pay ALPA another cent. Hasta La Vista baby!

 

[mobs]

ALPA is fighting this very hard. We will know more after the arbitration starts on the 13th Mar.

 

[hateairlines]

I find it ironic that a SWA/FO posts this-SWA being the one major airline in the world that is to cheap to even have a pension plan????????

 

[HA25]

I find it ironic that a SWA/FO posts this-SWA being the one major airline in the world that is to cheap to even have a pension plan????????

And what a lot of people don't understand, is that it only takes one airline to be cheap and the rest will have a hell of a time competing...

 

[Ty Webb]

And what a lot of people don't understand, is that it only takes one airline to be cheap and the rest will have a hell of a time competing...

Sounds kind of socialistic.

Please tell what airline employs a man such as yourself. I am sure we can find fault with soemthing they are doing, or not doing, too.

 

[HA25]

Sounds kind of socialistic.

Please tell what airline employs a man such as yourself. I am sure we can find fault with soemthing they are doing, or not doing, too.

You totally lost me.

What part of my statement above is socialistic... With an MBA in Business and a degree in Economics, I missed that lesson...

As for my "airline" it's, short answer is..

Ex-ASA
Furloughed American
Current Corporate CE560
(A good friend of mine and former pilot with us used to fly for Airtran, his last name was also Webb)

 

[HA25]

wait, wait, let me preempt a debate...

I'll explain my statement up front:

Airline A, B, C, and D all have x, y, z as expenses. Airlines A,B & C all also have an additional expense, we'll call it p (for pension).

Now if airline D starts to fly into the markets that airlines A, B, and C fly but at a cost of labor that is reduce by dollar amount "p", they are in fact able to make an additional profit equal to airlines A, B, and C, or if they want to be smart, they will fly at the same rate and make additional profits which we can call Delta "p"...

Thus airline D is more profitable and is able to have a higher stock price and therefore better access to capital to keep themselves in business.

Do you get it?

 

[46Driver]

I think I am going to buy stock in airline "D"......