UPS pilots too good to ride in an RJ?

[MJG]

UPS values the lives of their pilots and they dont want them traveling on an airplane being operated by a 500 hour pilot....

Guess they would never trust them on a C-17, C-130, C-5, C-12, C-21, C-(insert favorite military transport number here) then either?

Total time above 100 hours is irrelevant, it's the quality of the time that matters, the military figured that out long ago, guess you haven't.

Most of the folks that I've flown with that "shouldn't have been there" had 1000+ hours, but their time was all as a CFI and it showed. Some of the folks I've flown with that had less than a thousand hours were also some of the better pilots I've flown with. Generally if they have low time, and are flying for an airline, they've been flying continuously since starting their training and they are some of the most profecient pilots out there.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I didn't say anything about experience ... although anything less than 135 minimums is just criminal.

I said maturity.

 

[indianboy7]

anyone ever heard the bitching coming out of passengers' mouths after a 3+ hour flight from houston to bakersfield in an erj, or san fran to san antonio in a 70 seat crj?......i can completely understand why UPS says their pilots need to be comfortable and rested before they go to fly.......

 

[CherryBomb]

Guess they would never trust them on a C-17, C-130, C-5, C-12, C-21, C-(insert favorite military transport number here) then either?

Total time above 100 hours is irrelevant, it's the quality of the time that matters, the military figured that out long ago, guess you haven't.

Most of the folks that I've flown with that "shouldn't have been there" had 1000+ hours, but their time was all as a CFI and it showed. Some of the folks I've flown with that had less than a thousand hours were also some of the better pilots I've flown with. Generally if they have low time, and are flying for an airline, they've been flying continuously since starting their training and they are some of the most profecient pilots out there.

WOW WOW WOW, VERY VERY POOR COMPARISON.

To compare a 500 hour regional pilot to a 500 hour military pilot is ludicrous.

Remember the training,

Most 500 hour regional pilots came from Delta Connection Academy type schools where they had a guaranteed interview after some 90 day fast track program.

Military pilots come from YEARS of some of the best training in the world.
Also they are put through an extreme selection process, and are given tough tests and evaluations regularly. Only the best of the best get through.

The for-mentioned 500 hour regional guys only need 50,000 bucks from moms and pops. The only testing they are administered are of course FAA writtens and check rides with paid off, in house examiners.


BIG BIG DIFFERENCE...

 

[CherryBomb]

In fact yes i do believe so. What makes you think that its unsafe to fly on a regional carrier. I would be more worried about flying in the Falcons and Lear CherryBombs your in, not because of the pilots but the aircraft. I know a few people at Cherry and I respect everyone of them. Not every FO at a regional is a 500 hour wonder boss.

I know not everyone at the regionals came there with 500 hours on a guaranteed interview ticket.

I have the UTMOST respect for the guys that went to the regionals after they did their time flying single pilot cargo or some other 135 job that exposes them to poor weather and frequent emergencies. I have many friends that have done just that.

I agree with another poster that said "anything under 135 minimums is just criminal".

I just have a hard time taking these 500 hour guys seriously. But maybe I'm just a D!ck...

 

[Flightdawg]

I wouldn't want to ride in an RJ for 2.5+ either. Just because some of the RJs can do that, doesn't mean they should.

Amen! Some other airlines have set the pitch so close they are equally uncomfortable, but all RJ's are guaranteed to be that way.

Since it is in their contract, it isn't about a commuter going from home to work on their own, it is about UPS deadheading them somewhere.

 

[I Hate Freight]

I wouldn't want to ride in an RJ for 2.5+ either. Just because some of the RJs can do that, doesn't mean they should.

Not wanting to is one thing, being prohibited from doing so is quite another. Try addressing that.

 

[I Hate Freight]

Your AVERAGE USA Jet captain makes MORE than any regional jet captain.

Not true at all. Based on a 90-hour month, a 10-year captain at Eagle or even Skywest makes more than a 10-year USA Jet captain.

 

[capt. megadeth]

i can completely understand why UPS says their pilots need to be comfortable and rested before they go to fly.......

I don't think it's UPS that cares.....it's the Neg. Comm. UPS would probably have us pay for our own tickets home if they could. Better yet, they would just have us drive in one of the trucks.

I wouldn't read too much into this. I don't think it's because we're "too good" (well, maybe some of the pilots here would but not me), I think it's just a comfort thing.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Sounds like a good rule to me! The most comfortable RJ I have been on is akin to sitting on a concrete slab with your knees pinned to your ears.

Not saying that a full 737 is comfortable in coach......but compared to a full RJ it is a suite at the Ritz!!!!

 

[ASA_Willy]

I don't think it's UPS that cares.....it's the Neg. Comm. UPS would probably have us pay for our own tickets home if they could. Better yet, they would just have us drive in one of the trucks.

They'd probably rather pack you all up in big brown boxes and toss you into the back of one of the trucks.

 

[Whataburger]

Maybe members of their negotiating committee have visited the regionals board on flightinfo.com and determined that the lack of maturity shown by RJ pilots is a safety concern.

Just spitballin' here.

Because 2.5 hour flights are much more dangerous than <2.5hr flights?

 

[BenderGonzales]

Good point Whataburger. If they had any negotiating capital they would've kept their crews off of RJs 100% of the time.

They would not be setting precedent. Prior to 2001 the US Airways Flight Attendants enjoyed a provision in their contract that prohibited the company from dedheading them on USAir Express.

 

[777_Jackpot]

I just have a hard time taking these 500 hour guys seriously. But maybe I'm just a D!ck...

Yeah, I think you got it right in the second sentence.

 

[PCL_128]

Nothing against the captains, but do you guys really think that if the captain became unable to fly the airplane, do you think that 500 hour FO could handle it????

Yep. Without a doubt. I can't think of a single one of these "low-time" FOs I've flown with yet that couldn't handle it. On the other hand, when I was an FO I flew with several 5,000+ hour Captains that slipped through the cracks for 10 years that could barely handle a flight on a clear blue day with no MELs. Total time is just a number. I don't even bother asking my FOs how much time they have. I could care less. The number is completely meaningless.

P.S. I do agree with the UPS pilots, though. Riding in the back of an RJ for any length of time is pure hell.

 

[imacdog]

Not wanting to is one thing, being prohibited from doing so is quite another. Try addressing that.

Addressing what? Regional jets are fine for shorter flights, but are uncomfortable on longer flights. It's not like their pilots are prohibited from jumpseating on their own time on 3 hour RJ flights. Good on the UPS pilots for saying no to ridiculously long RJ flights.

 

[Superpilot92]

Good luck on alot of flights then because there are a bunch of long flights that are only "RJ" Flights

 

[BlackPilot628]

Good luck on alot of flights then because there are a bunch of long flights that are only "RJ" Flights

That is correct. RJ's include all of them too. CRJ/ERJ/E170/CRJ7/CRJ9.
Man. That is 50% of the fleet in America.

 

[32LT10]

That is correct. RJ's include all of them too. CRJ/ERJ/E170/CRJ7/CRJ9.
Man. That is 50% of the fleet in America.

That is a sad statement on the industry.

 

[sleddriver77]

The reason the seat belt sign isn't used anymore is the liability factor. The company is gonna curb stomp your as-s if you have it off and someone gets hurt. It's happened before, and I leave it on if in doubt.

And this is the reason nobody respects the frappin' thing anymore!

Thanks to all of the guys who leave it on no matter what, (y'know, for liability purposes) passengers have "come to understand" that the FSB sign doesnt mean jack squat anymore, and take it upon themselves to get up and take a leak whenever the spirit moves them, even if it moves them during a rather turbulent approach. There's a reason the thing is a light with an on/off switch, and not just a permanent placard like new airplanes' "No Smoking" signs. Use It!

 

[BlackPilot628]

That is a sad statement on the industry.

Sad but true. RJ's have flooded the market.

 

[80for80]

Sad but true. RJ's have flooded the market.

Yeah, because you guys undercut everyone to fly others routes.

 

[PCL_128]

Yeah, because you guys undercut everyone to fly others routes.

This coming from someone who's screen name is 80for80? You must be joking.

 

[NEDude]

I do agree that the RJ is a lil cramped and it shouldnt be used for flight longer than 2 hours. But with the provision arent UPS pilots just limiting themselves? What if they are done with their trip and the next flight back to SDF/ONT/any other UPS base is in an RJ? So that means they are just gonna delay their trip home by a few hours just because u dont want to sit in an RJ? kinda silly to me.

Doesn't seem silly to me if you are getting paid $100-$200 bucks an hour to deadhead. What this really means is longer routing to get back to your base. The longer the routing, the more money you make. I say good for them.

I commute, I dont care what kind of plane i am in, or where my seat is. As long as it gets me home. I aint gonna skip that flight and wait for the next flight that leaves 2 hours later, jus so i can ride in an airbus or Boeing.

If I am going on my own time and dollar, I agree. But if the company is making me ride around on their time, I am going to make sure I am comfortable.

 

[Alchemy]

I wish we had a no middle seat on mainline deadheads clause in our contract....the RJ is fine, as proven by the repeated business of tens of thousands of customers on a daily basis. So are saabs and 1900s and dashes. Many long RJ flight would probably not see direct service if it weren't for the RJ.

The whole concept is pretty retarded...if you don't like RJ deadheads bid around them. We get saab deadheads all the time, fine with me. Hopefully they didn't give up too much "negotiating capital" to get this.

 

[doug_or]

They would not be setting precedent. Prior to 2001 the US Airways Flight Attendants enjoyed a provision in their contract that prohibited the company from dedheading them on USAir Express.

That would explain the 3 deadheading mainline flight attendants who insisted on trying to fit their overnight bags in the Dash's overhead (after the ramper and flight attendant told them they wouldn't fit.).
Yes they had heals.
Yes they fell over and almost broke their 80 year old calcium deprived femurs. Yes the mainline pilots laughed at them.

 

[Superpilot92]

Yeah, because you guys undercut everyone to fly others routes.

How about its because Mainline Pilots where to good to Fly an "RJ". They gave it up. I can pretty much bet that most of us Regional Guys and Gals would love nothing more than for the RJs to be on the Mainline Certificate so things wouldnt be this way. That way mainline could have furlough protection and we could have career progression. XJT or Continental Express in the past tried very hard to one list it to no prevail. So you can blame us all you want but its not going to do a whole lot of good now until you people who blame the regionals get off your High Horse and help us fix the Fluck ups of the past. JMHO

 

[80for80]

The FACT is that MOST mainline pilots are ex military and they don't want one list with a regional because their squadron buddies would have to start out in an RJ vs a 737. Also, MOST mainline pilots don't like one list because they think that the regional pilot is getting on at a major the "easy" way, without paying the proper dues. They also think that they would not be able to "weed out" the commuter trash if one list is in place. Face it guys, MOST mainline pilots look down with disdain at us regional pilots and don't want us on their property.

 

[Superpilot92]

Because alot of Mainline guys "Earned" it also. Alot of mainline were hired in their early 20's. Not to mention any Scab that "Earned" their way. Until the mainline guys start working with us then its only going to get worse i think. I know if i was at mainline i would want it because it would be job protection for me. I have no problem earning my way up the list but it would flat out stop the race to the bottom if we worked under one list. Each Carrier with their own list. That way more and more flying wouldnt be getting farmed out to the lowest bidder.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Superpilot92 aside from the Delta pilots, every mainline pilot group TRIED to get that equipment on the property. The US Airways pilots who (in 1999) had the tightest scope in the industry, did everything but rip the cover off of a Comair contract and hand it to management, allowed only a handful of "RJ"s to be outsourced at the time.

We all realized that we already FLEW "RJ"s. RJs called DC9s, Bac 1-11s, F28s, F100s... but by painting the LETTERS R and J on the side of the airplane they could get kids fresh out of flightschool who would fly the thing for peanuts!

Sorry pal. The toothpaste is out of the tube. You dont get a free ride to the majors. I dont get a quick recall, decent pay or workrules, or a retirement.

Fact is, I don't see why anybody would bother trying to get to the "majors" anymore these days. The light at the end of the tunnel is a train.

(FedEx and UPS excluded of course)