UPS newspaper article

[UPSer]

http://www.courier-journal.com/business/news2004/12/10/D1-ups10-6518.html

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

When I was looking for a job here, I use to say, he11, give me a job, Ill work for free for the first year just to be at such a great place like UPS. Yes, this place is a very secure job and Im glad to be here. However, It took the company less than one year to threaten my job with termination, and make me violate the terms of the IPA contract by having me move reserve days to facilitate a schedule change that was illegal. They didn't even blink an eye. Yes, I was still on probation. Yes, I talked to the union. Yes, Basically, I was screwed...


Welcome aboard new hires...


PS... Were all happy your here, but try to keep your giddiness to yourself and out of the Newspapers. Especially while your union is trying to negotiate your next contract...

BBDC8

 

[AA717driver]

I lump UPS management in with AMR management. They are vile, evil SOB's. A guy at our church who was a driver with a year to go before retirement added up the mileage on an expense report incorrectly. He transposed a couple of numbers. They terminated him. His manager went to bat for him and was threatened with HIS job.

A neighbor of mine is in UPS management. Nice guy but I can't forget how they operate. I wonder how many near-retirees he's terminated...

If you go there, keep your nose clean--squeaky for the first year and don't expect any warm fuzzies from management after that. Good luck.TC

 

[afpa]

For those of us waiting for that all important call from Louisville, is there still hope or have those first hundred already been selected? Thanks.

 

[flybrowntails]

"If you go there, keep your nose clean--squeaky for the first year and don't expect any warm fuzzies from management after that. Good luck.TC"

well said!

 

[pilotyip]

AMR management?

AMR seems to be the only legacy airline on track to return to profitability, avoid BK and save most of the AA jobs. They reported profits earlier this year before being smashed by fuel prices. Why is that so bad?

 

[Ty Webb]

AMR seems to be the only legacy airline on track to return to profitability, avoid BK and save most of the AA jobs. They reported profits earlier this year before being smashed by fuel prices. Why is that so bad?

No offense, YIP, but I'm not surprised that someone who lives on a 20-minute call-out doesn't seem to understand the unpleasantness of heavy-handed management.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

AMR seems to be the only legacy airline on track to return to profitability, avoid BK and save most of the AA jobs. They reported profits earlier this year before being smashed by fuel prices. Why is that so bad?

You're sure reading different articles than I am. The last analyst I read said if oil remained at $30 a barrel (vice the $40-$55 we've seen), the LCC's would have reduced ticket prices far further and the industry would be exactly where we are today and blaming it on LCC's versus high oil prices.

BTW, you did catch (last week) OPEC's call for a reduction in oil output.

Wonder what effect Branson's new low-cost domestic airline (with VERY deep pockets) will have on yields next year?

How about the LCC startup with 757's across the Atlantic ... how long before another Freddy Laker turns the intl routes (last bastions of profitability for the legacy carriers) into another LCC market? Wonder what effect this will have on legacy carriers' profits?

What effect will PBS have on furloughs at AA?

Oh ... this has potentially HUGE ramifications for the airline industry ... another recent article talked about UAL suing its aircraft lessors to prevent them from repossessing their collateral (jets). If UAL is successful, then the airlines will VERY QUICKLY find the lending market dried up and all aircraft purchases will be in CASH - DOH!

You have noticed the current domestic OVER CAPACITY in the system (i.e., lack of pricing power). You have noticed the significant increases in capacity planned by SWA, Jet Blue, and Air Tran ... just to name a few. Greater capacity allows a carrier to theoretically spread his fixed costs over more revenue generating assets (in theory lowering seat mile costs as more seats are added). Wonder what this additional capacity will mean for a system with already too much capacity. Econ 101 would suggest prices will fall further (the old supply-demand curve).

Also, each time a carrier is successful in acquiring labor cost reductions, the rest of the industry is FORCED to respond with their own further labor cost reductions in order to remain "competitive". USAirways is on round 3, UAL on round 2 ... how long before AA is FORCED into another round of labor cost reductions in order to remain competitive? Ultimately it is a foolish downward spiral for everyone without a winner.

How about USAirways and UAL severing their pension obligations? Wonder what UAL ridding itself of $8 BILLION in pension obligations will do to its competitive position? Wonder if other legacy carriers will be tempted (or FORCED) to follow UAL's lead to remain competitive?

Sorry, but I just don't see the rosy scenario you paint for AA's future.

 

[English]

Wonder what effect Branson's new low-cost domestic airline (with VERY deep pockets) will have on yields next year?

I read they lost their financing.

 

[pilotyip]

Ty Webb explain yourself.

What is heavy handed about savings the airline and resultant jobs? Maybe AMR management should follow the example set by Branniff, EAL, Pan Am. Midway I & II, etc. The AA pilots still make more than you, do they not?

 

[pilotyip]

Big Beer and your plan is?

I suppose you are a supporter of the old UAL battle cry "Max pay to the last day" Did wonders for UAL pilots once BK was declared. BTW Defined pensions are a thing of the past, did you see IBM has now stated all new employees will have only a 401K. Anyone besides a gov't employee who is hanging their future on a defined pension is likely to be surprised. We see what the defined pension has done to the Detroit auto industry; they can not complete with the non-union import automakers that do not provide retirement health or pensions.

 

[iaflyer]

AMR seems to be the only legacy airline on track to return to profitability, avoid BK and save most of the AA jobs. They reported profits earlier this year before being smashed by fuel prices. Why is that so bad?

I think it's the style of management that AMR practices. I don't disagree that managment's goal is to make money for those who have a stake in the company.

I think the problem that people have with AMR is the way in which they treat the employees while they are trying to make money. Someone posted a interview with Gordon Bethune where he talked about motivating the employees. I thought it was good, especially where he talked about AMR and Crandall.

Southwest seems to treat its employees fine and still make piles of money. One can make lots and lots of money, but if you go to work afraid of losing your job because you tranposed some numbers - the big dollars might not be enough.

There is a lot to be said for enjoying your job.

iaflyer

 

[Big Beer Belly]

My plan is to stay put at UPS and hopefully sidestep the morass in the pax industry. Short of re-regulating the industry (extremely unlikely) I see only a worsening of the current climate of more bankruptcies, consolidation, and liquidations.

I would strongly counsel any young pilot wannabe to consider other career fields and to not become so specialized in any skill-set that limits your employment to such a small handful of financially healthy employers. This industry is in the "crapper" (globally) and there is no obvious answer for its rescue.

 

[pilotyip]

iaflyer call me, I will fix you up.

Call me in the morning and I will get you what you need.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

I obviously need a funnier name to get hired!

 

[Ty Webb]

What is heavy handed about savings the airline and resultant jobs? Maybe AMR management should follow the example set by Branniff, EAL, Pan Am. Midway I & II, etc. The AA pilots still make more than you, do they not?

There are more ways to do things than just "the AMR way" or the "way of failed carriers way". Give me a break. This point isn;t even worth debating.

And, to answer your second question, if you can find a 4th yr AMR 737 Capt to compare pay with me, sure, he would make more, but there isn't such an animal. No disrespect intended towards the AA pilots, but you asked a question, and, to the best of my knowelege, that is the answer.

If you compare our 10th yr 737-800 pay with theirs, our pilots are actually making more, when you factor in our override for the -800 that is not included in the figures on "airlinepilotpay.com".Anyway, don't you have somewhere to be in 20 minutes?