UPS Hiring?

[H25BCPTN]

Ok, it has been a long time since UPS has hired any new pilots. Any guess on how many pilots UPS will have to hire when they start? Do you think UPS will bring back any of the AC they have parked or are they going to sell them? What AC do you think most new hires will start on? Last one, what do you think the starting salary might be in the new contract?

In the pool and still swimming but it is getting closer. LOL Still might be another year but we are closer everyday.

Fly Safe

 

[Wise Guy]

Hi there H25,

The reason they haven't hired in almost three years comes down to three basic things in the IMHO. Hub 2000, the A300 and maxing out the lines to the contractual limit. They can sort more packages through SDF, this has allowed them to reduce flights to the regional hubs and bring more volume through SDF on an A300 vs a 727. By scheduling 2 legs into the sort and two legs out on the A300, they can park a couple of 72's. That takes us from 6 crewmembers to 2 required for the same volume. They are displacing to the growing fleets, and most of the age 60 guys are going to the panel to wait out the contract. The new China routes might help hiring but I doubt it. With our liberal scheduling language they will keep packing the lines until we can change that in the next contract...maybe peak '05 IMHO. The starting salary will be whatever UPS thinks your worth (not much), but after the first year you will be paid what the IPA thinks you are worth.

Bottom line, little or no hiring until the next contract, but once you get here it will be a great place to be. I can't imagine being in the pax world right now.

Hang in there, WG

 

[Daddy]

Are you saying that IPA will not negotiate for higher first year pay? First year industry average pay seems to be around 4,000 per month or high 40's per year...UPS is less than 30K for first year pilots...pretty far out of whack and well behind FDX. Do you really think they'll just blow that off?

 

[h25b]

I would certainly hope they're aiming higher than the current first year rates. Unfortunately though, the highest percentage gains don't tend to be in the first year bracket of most new contracts............

 

[jhill]

Are you saying that IPA will not negotiate for higher first year pay? First year industry average pay seems to be around 4,000 per month or high 40's per year...UPS is less than 30K for first year pilots...pretty far out of whack and well behind FDX. Do you really think they'll just blow that off?

Yes, they will.

 

[767-300ER]

In 2002 UPS pilots turned down a mid-term contract T/A that included first year pay of $40K/year.

 

[Wise Guy]

Daddy,

I'm not saying the IPA won't negotiate for higher first year pay, but I don't think they should. I think it is UPS's responsibility to raise first year pay to industry standards (whatever that is anymore). If they want to lowball newhires then it will only make the newhires more loyal to the IPA. ie, look what this place would be like without the IPA. Don't forget also that in '98 when the contract was signed 26k a year was pretty normal first year pay. (not saying that is right).

It also s*cks that we have a ridiculously steep sloped captain payscale which in effect puts junior FO's under a B scale. The captains do quite well here, but the FO's don't get out of the B scale for about 10 years. This will get fixed in the contract or it will not pass. My $.02.

Cheers

 

[Daddy]

The T/A was a joke...I don't think that required any thought on anyone's part to say no to that. I think Wise guy is right that 26K was eaverage first year pay then. I can't imagine they would accept anything lower than industry leading pay in all categories though...I mean he11, these guys and FDX are the only companies actually doing pretty well.

 

[H25BCPTN]

Thanks Everyone. Trying to plan my life in this holding pattern for UPS and make vacation plans for this year. All the information everyone passes down is a big help for us poolies. Good luck on the contract and we will be waiting to help out soon as we can. Fly Safe and keep the information flowing.

 

[SWAnnabee]

Minimums

Does anyone know or remember what the hiring minimums for new hires were or will be?

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Hiring mins at the end of hiring 3 years ago,
Required Mins:
1000 PIC FW/Turbin
Total time Com with experience...

Realistic number for most pilots (2000 PIC FW/turbin and about 4-6000 TT)
but then again, theres always those few that get in with 500 PIC (they know someone "important" and I dont mean a 16 year Line Capt) and then of course there the military equation. I had both Military and Civilain so my numbers really messed up the lot...

UPS keeps us guessing about hiring, The IPA's (IPA = Our Inhouse Union) staffing model has called for hiring for a long time now, UPS's answer is to downsize crews and max out lines. I hope they get caught with there pants down on this issue. We have pilots getting dispalced 4-5 times a years to different aircraft because UPS is trying to play the numbers game on Min staffing. Their decisions to hire in the past has always been random. If anyone says that we are going to hire, unless it Mike Eskew, Consider it Bull $hit...

1st year pay, yeah it sucked, but it is really UPS's responsibility to define what they will pay 1st year pilots. 1st year is considered probation and therefore not officially protected by the Union. When I was a first year pilot here and still drinking the brown koolaid, I disagreed with my last statement, but now that Ive been here a while, and I feel like I know the corprate culture and the pilot group, I think its up to the company. Some here will disagree, most here will agree.

Hope this helps...

 

[Clyde]

Hiring mins at the end of hiring 3 years ago,
Required Mins:
1000 PIC FW/Turbin
Total time Com with experience...

Realistic number for most pilots (2000 PIC FW/turbin and about 4-6000 TT)
but then again, theres always those few that get in with 500 PIC (they know someone "important" and I dont mean a 16 year Line Capt) and then of course there the military equation. I had both Military and Civilain so my numbers really messed up the lot...

UPS keeps us guessing about hiring, The IPA's (IPA = Our Inhouse Union) staffing model has called for hiring for a long time now, UPS's answer is to downsize crews and max out lines. I hope they get caught with there pants down on this issue. We have pilots getting dispalced 4-5 times a years to different aircraft because UPS is trying to play the numbers game on Min staffing. Their decisions to hire in the past has always been random. If anyone says that we are going to hire, unless it Mike Eskew, Consider it Bull $hit...

1st year pay, yeah it sucked, but it is really UPS's responsibility to define what they will pay 1st year pilots. 1st year is considered probation and therefore not officially protected by the Union. When I was a first year pilot here and still drinking the brown koolaid, I disagreed with my last statement, but now that Ive been here a while, and I feel like I know the corprate culture and the pilot group, I think its up to the company. Some here will disagree, most here will agree.

Hope this helps...

Gee, I guess I should take a leave of abscence and go out and get 500 more hours turbine PIC. My only contact was a line F/O.

 

[RogerMOSA]

UPS mins...

In addition, if I remember correctly, the 2000 PIC requirement was MultiPIC.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Hey Clyde, no need to get wise about my comments, Im just trying to help. I too think its BS that Management has the most pull at UPS. If that kind of thing bothers you, this is not the company for you, That is just a minute sampling of the kind of "us and them" attitude that prevails here. as far as LOR's, Heck, I had LORs from 2 very Senior Capt's and an FO and didnt get a call for 3 years. I had both Military and regional PIC time. I even went to 7 different Air Inc Conf, had the suit, stood in line, resume, all the good stuff. I finally went out and beat the bush and found a management guy who was nice enough to write me an LOR. One thing is true, 3 weeks after the guy wrote me a LOR, I got the interview. Call it luck, good timing, whatever... TRUST ME, All of us IPA guys want UPS to hire more pilots. I counted tonight, there are only approx 85 FE's that are upgradeable to FO, the rest of our FE's are retreads, our next bid is out in a couple of weeks and then the number will be approx 50 or so. After that its either park planes or hire... Good luck and get your ME Turb FW PIC...

My Pre 9/11 PIC times was around 1900 or so... someone in my class only had 800 PIC which none of it was military. Go figure (had a LOR from a Sr management from what I was told) Hey good for him, he got the job and hes a nice guy...

 

[klhoard]

UPS JA question

<snip>. . .I counted tonight, there are only approx 85 FE's that are upgradeable to FO, the rest of our FE's are retreads, our next bid is out in a couple of weeks and then the number will be approx 50 or so. After that its either park planes or hire... . . .<snip>. . ..

Big Brown. . .

I'm curious how UPS's Junior Available system works. Both how it's "supposed" to work and how it is actually used. Fortunately we don't have JA here, and I shudder at the thought of having to constantly screen my calls, maintain another phone line or rigorously brief the family on how to answer the phone.

1) Can you put yourself on a "Do Not Call" list?
2) Do they give you your JA assignments in a manner where you can't screen your phone calls or avoid Crew Scheduling? (I have heard horror stories of Delta crews getting their JA assinments given to them in the jetway. . .)
3) I'm assuming that a JA assignment pays more than a normal trip.
4) Is there a limit on how many JA trips you can be assigned in a month?

 

[Clyde]

Hey Clyde, no need to get wise about my comments, Im just trying to help. I too think its BS that Management has the most pull at UPS. If that kind of thing bothers you, this is not the company for you, That is just a minute sampling of the kind of "us and them" attitude that prevails here. as far as LOR's, Heck, I had LORs from 2 very Senior Capt's and an FO and didnt get a call for 3 years. I had both Military and regional PIC time. I even went to 7 different Air Inc Conf, had the suit, stood in line, resume, all the good stuff. I finally went out and beat the bush and found a management guy who was nice enough to write me an LOR. One thing is true, 3 weeks after the guy wrote me a LOR, I got the interview. Call it luck, good timing, whatever... TRUST ME, All of us IPA guys want UPS to hire more pilots. I counted tonight, there are only approx 85 FE's that are upgradeable to FO, the rest of our FE's are retreads, our next bid is out in a couple of weeks and then the number will be approx 50 or so. After that its either park planes or hire... Good luck and get your ME Turb FW PIC...


My Pre 9/11 PIC times was around 1900 or so... someone in my class only had 800 PIC which none of it was military. Go figure (had a LOR from a Sr management from what I was told) Hey good for him, he got the job and hes a nice guy...

Brown, didn't intend for my comment to be wise. My apologies if it were taken that way. It was intended to inject a little humor into this thread.

When I was applying to the majors, a lot of people kept telling me to not even apply until I had at least 1000 PIC turbine, that it wouldn't even get looked at otherwise. I applied, and not only interviewed here, but was offered interviews at two other carriers. Given, it was also pre-911 and there were a few people senior to me that were leaving for other majors. With the glut of pilots out there and the current condition of the industry, it wouldn't surprise me to see the hiring conditions more strict now.

I do agree, management has the upper hand on a lot of things around here. I would like to see the company start taking our LOR's from line guys more seriously.

Hopefully this upgrade trend continues. Hoping it leads to vacancies that cannot be filled from the inside.

 

[de727ups]

1.) No
2.) I've only had it happen via the phone
3.) Time and a half
4.) Yeah. You'd eventually reach your credit cap. I think it's 196 hours in 56 days.