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UPS Hiring 2004?
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Word is they will park six more 727s after peak. I just bid off the 727 after 13 years and am headed for the 757 ONT. They are still taking crews from the dying fleets and putting them on the MD11 or A300. The unions position is we will need to hire in 2004, according to the hiring model that even the company has agreed is accurate. At the same time, the official word is no hiring. There are more and more age 60plus guys coming to the back seat all the time....
Word is they will park six more 727s after peak. I just bid off the 727 after 13 years and am headed for the 757 ONT. They are still taking crews from the dying fleets and putting them on the MD11 or A300. The unions position is we will need to hire in 2004, according to the hiring model that even the company has agreed is accurate. At the same time, the official word is no hiring. There are more and more age 60plus guys coming to the back seat all the time....
Dav8tor
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http://www.courier-journal.com/business/news2003/11/23/biz-front-UPS23-5003.html
This is a nice article I found that talks about the new bids and all at UPS...I hope this clarify some of your questions.
This is a nice article I found that talks about the new bids and all at UPS...I hope this clarify some of your questions.
Stifler's Mom
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General Lee
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De727UPS,
Does UPS fly "turns" on the 767 from ONT to HNL atc, or are there layovers there? Also, are the trips out of ONT more "allnighters" vs Daytrips, or is there a mix? I always wondered.....I also hear you guys a lot when I am doing allnighters on Song out of Vegas....I also saw a UPS MD-11 in DFW a couple days ago, do you know where that bird flies to?
Bye Bye--General Lee
Does UPS fly "turns" on the 767 from ONT to HNL atc, or are there layovers there? Also, are the trips out of ONT more "allnighters" vs Daytrips, or is there a mix? I always wondered.....I also hear you guys a lot when I am doing allnighters on Song out of Vegas....I also saw a UPS MD-11 in DFW a couple days ago, do you know where that bird flies to?
Bye Bye--General Lee
General,
I can't speak much about the ONT schedules, but I think most of the HNL stuff is a layover. Also, ONT has a mix of international (mostly PAC Rim) and domestic flying. Most domestic stuff is allnighters but there is daytime stuff out there if you are senior enough.
The MD11 you saw does morning and evening turns (SDF-DFW) but will be replaced by a 747 next year and the MD11 will take over some of the 747 China routes.
Hope you guys don't take a pay cut. Hang in there!
Cheers
I can't speak much about the ONT schedules, but I think most of the HNL stuff is a layover. Also, ONT has a mix of international (mostly PAC Rim) and domestic flying. Most domestic stuff is allnighters but there is daytime stuff out there if you are senior enough.
The MD11 you saw does morning and evening turns (SDF-DFW) but will be replaced by a 747 next year and the MD11 will take over some of the 747 China routes.
Hope you guys don't take a pay cut. Hang in there!
Cheers
General Lee
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Wiseguy,
Thanks for the responses. We still have our MD-11 fleet (all will be in the desert soon), and we are still paying daily leases on them (hence, more losses)---but maybe we will fly them again someday.....
As far as the paycuts, I still think unfortunately that we will take some sort of a paycut---probably 10-15% with some other beanies--like a per diem cut etc.....to help Delta have better access to some capital markets to refinance our debt. But, we won't give it all away, and that benchmark will still be there for you when your next round comes up for renegotiations. It is hard to justify such a large gap in bad times. But, we will still be up there, just not as high.....
Bye Bye---General Lee 
Thanks for the responses. We still have our MD-11 fleet (all will be in the desert soon), and we are still paying daily leases on them (hence, more losses)---but maybe we will fly them again someday.....
As far as the paycuts, I still think unfortunately that we will take some sort of a paycut---probably 10-15% with some other beanies--like a per diem cut etc.....to help Delta have better access to some capital markets to refinance our debt. But, we won't give it all away, and that benchmark will still be there for you when your next round comes up for renegotiations. It is hard to justify such a large gap in bad times. But, we will still be up there, just not as high.....
Bye Bye---General Lee
UPS stuff
The ONT base is 757/767, though there are other fleets flying through the ONT hub. The HNL trips are usually one leg, 24ish hour layover, and then through Maui to San Diego. There isn't much day flying out of ONT...most of the west coast day flying is early morning shows with flights to the east. I should be able to do a day trip out of Spokane and be home every night...kinda crazy for a night freight job.
The ONT base is 757/767, though there are other fleets flying through the ONT hub. The HNL trips are usually one leg, 24ish hour layover, and then through Maui to San Diego. There isn't much day flying out of ONT...most of the west coast day flying is early morning shows with flights to the east. I should be able to do a day trip out of Spokane and be home every night...kinda crazy for a night freight job.
Alaskaairlines
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Upgrade times back in the day...
I think I could have held Capt in my sixth or so year. I've bypassed a long time because I like the schedules a senior guy can command...plus as a single dude, I don't need the extra money all that bad. I've been watching the schedules I could hold as a Capt and they still don't meet my standards for quality of life. It's a never ending cycle, the more senior you get in your seat the better your lifestyle and then as you get used to being lazy, the harder it is to accept the seniority hit of the upgrade....
I figure in a couple years I'll make the jump....will still have 16 years to go at that point.
I think I could have held Capt in my sixth or so year. I've bypassed a long time because I like the schedules a senior guy can command...plus as a single dude, I don't need the extra money all that bad. I've been watching the schedules I could hold as a Capt and they still don't meet my standards for quality of life. It's a never ending cycle, the more senior you get in your seat the better your lifestyle and then as you get used to being lazy, the harder it is to accept the seniority hit of the upgrade....
I figure in a couple years I'll make the jump....will still have 16 years to go at that point.
Alaskaairlines
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Lifer F/O's
Two things come to mind when you say lifer F/O's. We have a few that will never upgrade cause they can't...ie...they can't get through the training program.
There are a few others, like me, where the cost/benefit ratio (being a purely personal thing) has kept me more interested in being a senior F/O than a pretty junior Capt. However, with the way the retirement program works, anyone who can upgrade will most probably spend at least 5 years in the left seat before age 60.
I figure in a couple of years I'll be able to hold good enough trips that I wouldn't mind upgrading....at the same time....I'm about to start doing day flying out of my home town. It may be so easy that I don't upgrade until I can hold that trip as a Capt.....
Two things come to mind when you say lifer F/O's. We have a few that will never upgrade cause they can't...ie...they can't get through the training program.
There are a few others, like me, where the cost/benefit ratio (being a purely personal thing) has kept me more interested in being a senior F/O than a pretty junior Capt. However, with the way the retirement program works, anyone who can upgrade will most probably spend at least 5 years in the left seat before age 60.
I figure in a couple of years I'll be able to hold good enough trips that I wouldn't mind upgrading....at the same time....I'm about to start doing day flying out of my home town. It may be so easy that I don't upgrade until I can hold that trip as a Capt.....
General Lee
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de727ups,
I have another couple questions for you. I have heard that you are paid the same on any piece of equipment(paid for years of service, not A/C type), and the 727 is really the most senior aircraft there due to the short stage lengths. Is that true? And, you must be a 727 FO, right?? Also, what do the pilots think of the A300, and is that going senior? How about the MD-11? Just curious...
Bye Bye--General Lee
I have another couple questions for you. I have heard that you are paid the same on any piece of equipment(paid for years of service, not A/C type), and the 727 is really the most senior aircraft there due to the short stage lengths. Is that true? And, you must be a 727 FO, right?? Also, what do the pilots think of the A300, and is that going senior? How about the MD-11? Just curious...
Bye Bye--General Lee
UPS stuff
"I have heard that you are paid the same on any piece of equipment" True...supposedly we are paid an average 757/767 rate for all the equipment types but I think we only had pairity back when we signed our last contract. We got left behind a bit but then caught back up with some of the industry give backs. I believe the current Capt. rate tops out at 190/hr
"727 is really the most senior aircraft there due to the short stage lengths"...I'd say true though folks are starting to bail as our lines are being cut back, flying is going to other fleets, and they say they will park six more 727's in the desert next year (total of 30).
I'm a 727 F/O but should be going to 757 school in Feb. Personally, I've heard few good comments about the Bus and a lot of bad ones. We are getting 8 more next year and they are adding crews to it. The Bus isn't overly senior. The MD11 seems to be well liked and I could be the number one F/O. I think it's fairly senior in the left seat. I looked into going that route instead of 757. They have some long intl. layovers but, if you only wanted one commute a month, you'd be gone like 13 days in a row. I hear good comments about the MD11 training and the trips in general.
How do you guys do IRO's on the long hauls? Right now, we are using Capts on the MD11 and F/O's on the 767. I've been told that there is no IRO over ride pay on the 767, though you have to be typed and maintain a first class. I bet it's industry standard to pay some sort of IRO over-ride.
"I have heard that you are paid the same on any piece of equipment" True...supposedly we are paid an average 757/767 rate for all the equipment types but I think we only had pairity back when we signed our last contract. We got left behind a bit but then caught back up with some of the industry give backs. I believe the current Capt. rate tops out at 190/hr
"727 is really the most senior aircraft there due to the short stage lengths"...I'd say true though folks are starting to bail as our lines are being cut back, flying is going to other fleets, and they say they will park six more 727's in the desert next year (total of 30).
I'm a 727 F/O but should be going to 757 school in Feb. Personally, I've heard few good comments about the Bus and a lot of bad ones. We are getting 8 more next year and they are adding crews to it. The Bus isn't overly senior. The MD11 seems to be well liked and I could be the number one F/O. I think it's fairly senior in the left seat. I looked into going that route instead of 757. They have some long intl. layovers but, if you only wanted one commute a month, you'd be gone like 13 days in a row. I hear good comments about the MD11 training and the trips in general.
How do you guys do IRO's on the long hauls? Right now, we are using Capts on the MD11 and F/O's on the 767. I've been told that there is no IRO over ride pay on the 767, though you have to be typed and maintain a first class. I bet it's industry standard to pay some sort of IRO over-ride.
Alaskaairlines
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General Lee
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de727ups,
IRO--or INTL relief Officers----On normal INTL legs over 8 hours we use one Capt and Two typed FOs. But, on our ATL to NRT flights we have 2 Capts and two FOs on MD-11s now, but that will change to 777s in JAN.
If you haven't flown the 757/767 before, I think you will love it. The 757 is my favorite, very easy to land, and easy to handle. The only thing you must watch out for is slowing down, since it has a very fast wing. The 767 is nice but you need to keep the power in almost until touchdown. Enjoy it. Thanks again for the info.
Bye Bye--General Lee
IRO--or INTL relief Officers----On normal INTL legs over 8 hours we use one Capt and Two typed FOs. But, on our ATL to NRT flights we have 2 Capts and two FOs on MD-11s now, but that will change to 777s in JAN.
If you haven't flown the 757/767 before, I think you will love it. The 757 is my favorite, very easy to land, and easy to handle. The only thing you must watch out for is slowing down, since it has a very fast wing. The 767 is nice but you need to keep the power in almost until touchdown. Enjoy it. Thanks again for the info.
Bye Bye--General Lee
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