UPS buying Polar again!

[FreightNazi]

Here's the lates rumor on the UPS side. What if anything, have you Polar guys been hearing?

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From a maintenance manager, Big announcement at the end of the month,
we are now back to purchasing Polar Air cargo
He was told this by his manager, maintenance has huge concerns about the
poor condition their (Polar's) 200's are in. He says the first converted
400's are avail late in 2007, and we need them yesterday, we are loosing
two whales this year, and two more next year, mostly due to heavy
maintenance checks coming due that are not worth the cash investment.
The number one reason Polar is a good deal , he says the company wants
the route authority, says it would immediately put us on par with FEDEX
in the asia market. Btw , he says all the property from
the site of the old Louisville Forge south on the west side of 35L has
now been purchased, this is needed for ramp space for additional heavies
and air cargo.......

FWIW,

 

[FearlessFreep]

From my understanding the valuable Narita slots that Polar "owns" are specific to Polar - period, meaning that if Polar does not exist as company neither do the slots. I don't know if there are any other route structures available that would be of any worth.

UPS buying Polar would not bode well for any of the current employees, of course this issue has already been beat to death.

 

[furloughfodder]

I sure would hate to see everyone at Polar get stapled and furloughed. But that's what would most likely happen. Two different unions, and UPS being the aquiring company would spell instant disaster for all the employees of Polar. All UPS wants is the routes and planes, they even stated that.

Lets hope the age-old rumor is once again false.

 

[Whale Rider]

I sure would hate to see everyone at Polar get stapled and furloughed. But that's what would most likely happen. Two different unions, and UPS being the aquiring company would spell instant disaster for all the employees of Polar. All UPS wants is the routes and planes, they even stated that.

Lets hope the age-old rumor is once again false.

Stapled at the bottom or not, it makes no difference. If UPS wants these routes they so covet (ie. Japan, China). The Polar name can't disappear. These routes were awarded to "Polar Air Cargo". If UPS tries to fly those routes they'll lose them, to a rebid amongst all the other international cargo carriers. Which means they'll have operate us separately......kinda of like Atlas is doing now. Thats fine with me.

This is probably why this rumor keeps turning out to be an old wives tale.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I sure would hate to see everyone at Polar get stapled and furloughed.

As long as they don't get furloughed, it'd probably be a good thing for the Polar pilots if they were absorbed... Certainly for the junior people, once they made it past the first year pay scale. The Polar captains would make out badly, but the FO's would get a decent raise after the first year.

But yes, it would be a total mess.

 

[FreightNazi]

Stapled at the bottom or not, it makes no difference. If UPS wants these routes they so covet (ie. Japan, China). The Polar name can't disappear. These routes were awarded to "Polar Air Cargo". If UPS tries to fly those routes they'll lose them, to a rebid amongst all the other international cargo carriers. Which means they'll have operate us separately......kinda of like Atlas is doing now. Thats fine with me.

This is probably why this rumor keeps turning out to be an old wives tale.

Don't underestimate the political clout of UPS in Washington. CEO Eskew is tight with Dubya and would lobby hard for those routes to go to UPS in any purchase. If this deal does go through, I'm fairly confident that UPS would be certain that it had the routes it wants before buying Polar.

As for the Polar pilots, UPS' current contract allows them to operate any aquired carrier for up to one year before IPA pilots would have to take over. Unfortunately for the Polar pilots, if this deal does go through, I think they would fly the routes until UPS ramped up their own pilots ( IPA ) to take over and the Polar pilots would probably face an outcome similar to the Challenge pilots. Probably the best thing the Polar pilots could face would be a preferential interview and if hired, going to the bottom of the UPS seniority list.

Personally, I hope this deal does NOT go through. I would rather see UPS grow internally rather than purchasing assets of another operator. But, every day that goes by without UPS announcing the purchase of additional heavy lift aircraft lends more weight to the Polar rumor.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Don't underestimate the political clout of UPS in Washington. CEO Eskew is tight with Dubya and would lobby hard for those routes to go to UPS in any purchase.

You can have all the "clout" you want in Washington but it not going to do you any good in Japan (where the valuable slots are) or the rest of the world where no one cares or pays any attention to the blatherings of Dubya. Still if "Polar Air Cargo" is not the operator on those routes/slots they will have to be re-bid period. They are not a tangible asset so what would be the pupose of purchasing Polar for route authorities that would evaporate with the demise of the company after UPS paints the aircraft brown.

 

[Whale Rider]

Don't underestimate the political clout of UPS in Washington. CEO Eskew is tight with Dubya and would lobby hard for those routes to go to UPS in any purchase. If this deal does go through, I'm fairly confident that UPS would be certain that it had the routes it wants before buying Polar.

As for the Polar pilots, UPS' current contract allows them to operate any aquired carrier for up to one year before IPA pilots would have to take over. Unfortunately for the Polar pilots, if this deal does go through, I think they would fly the routes until UPS ramped up their own pilots ( IPA ) to take over and the Polar pilots would probably face an outcome similar to the Challenge pilots. Probably the best thing the Polar pilots could face would be a preferential interview and if hired, going to the bottom of the UPS seniority list.

Everything you've said here is mute to the fact that the routes were awarded to "Polar Air Cargo" and will be lost, to a rebid, if flown by anyone else, under any name other than Polar. This is all fact not rumor. But what do I know, with enough money you can have anything.

 

[FreightNazi]

It sounds like the authority into NRT is the one that is not transferrable. If that is so, UPS probably isn't really too concerned with that, as since the second runway opened, UPS has gotten more slots for that runway. UPS' main area of growth in Asia is China, and those slots, I believe, do go with any purchaser of Polar. What UPS wants and needs NOW is more lift to/from Asia, mainly China. Purchasing Polar would give them that.

 

[Whale Rider]

It sounds like the authority into NRT is the one that is not transferrable. If that is so, UPS probably isn't really too concerned with that, as since the second runway opened, UPS has gotten more slots for that runway. UPS' main area of growth in Asia is China, and those slots, I believe, do go with any purchaser of Polar. What UPS wants and needs NOW is more lift to/from Asia, mainly China. Purchasing Polar would give them that.

Wrong again...the slots out of China, Japan and Korea are the slots I've been talking about.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I'm surprised Rhoid hasn't chimed in with his words of wisdom by now.


Rhoid? Where are you?

 

[bobs98tlr]

Rhoid is gone dude.....band forever.

Not to hijack or anything but i work out of RFD....we see a lot of UPS stuff at night. However i herd Polar is suppose to start comming in here soon for BAX. Anyone know anything about that?

 

[FearlessFreep]

Jeez FreightNazi,

You seem resolute in finding some kind of perverse joy in the potential of a number of people possibly losing their jobs to the brown juggernaut.

Probably the best thing the Polar pilots could face would be a preferential interview and if hired, going to the bottom of the UPS seniority list.

Throwing out this bone is akin to Marie Antoinette saying "Let Them Eat Cake" when the peasants in France had no bread to eat.

Personally, I hope this deal does NOT go through. I would rather see UPS grow internally rather than purchasing assets of another operator.

This sentiment is not echoed in your conversation.


Just because people work for carriers other than UPS & Fedex does not make them invalid.

There is more to eat in this world than McDonald's & Burger King!

Good Luck To Us All!

 

[FreightNazi]

Jeez FreightNazi,

You seem resolute in finding some kind of perverse joy in the potential of a number of people possibly losing their jobs to the brown juggernaut.
Throwing out this bone is akin to Marie Antoinette saying "Let Them Eat Cake" when the peasants in France had no bread to eat.

This sentiment is not echoed in your conversation.


Just because people work for carriers other than UPS & Fedex does not make them invalid.

There is more to eat in this world than McDonald's & Burger King!

Good Luck To Us All!

I'd hate to see ANYONE lose their job, however what I was trying to convey to the Polar pilots is that IF this deal goes through the best they could probably hope for would be some type of preferential interview and going to the bottom of the UPS seniority list. If the deal does go through, like I said earlier, the company can operate Polar for up to one year as a seperate operation before IPA pilots would have to take over. I am just trying to nip in the bud any ideas Polar pilots might have of ANY type or merger of lists between UPS and Polar. It aint gonna happen. That sentiment is NOT exclusive to myself.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I could say that it would be safe to assume that all the pilots at Polar are more than fully aware of the ramifications of a takeover by UPS. Reiterating those facts ad nausem is totally unneccessary and serves no real purpose other than to make yourself and your compatriots feel superior to the rest of us. I still find your unctuous attitude with the lightly applied veil of your "good intentions" to be reprehensible.

You truly are a brown shirt - with all the implications of that being fufilled. I guess that fits with your nom de guerre. As in name, as in nature.

It will be really interesting to see how your union's contract negotiations will pan out with all the hard concessions the passenger carrying legacy carriers have had deal with. Sort of definitely lowers the bar on pilots pay across the board? Too bad for all of us. Do you really think that you guys will prevail over that fact?

Cheers & Good Luck To Us All!

 

[FreightNazi]

I could say that it would be safe to assume that all the pilots at Polar are more than fully aware of the ramifications of a takeover by UPS. Reiterating those facts ad nausem is totally unneccessary and serves no real purpose other than to make yourself and you compatriots feel superior to the rest of us. I still find your unctuous attitude with the lightly applied veil of your "good intentions" to be reprehensible.

You truly are a brown shirt - with all the implications of that being fufilled. I guess that fits with your nom de guerre. As in name, as in nature.

It will be really interesting to see how your union's contract negotiations will pan out with all the hard concessions the passenger carrying legacy carriers have had deal with. Sort of definitely lowers the bar on pilots pay across the board. Too bad for all of us. Do you think you guys will prevail?

Cheers & Good Luck To Us All!

I am truly sorry that you feel this way about me. I do not feel "superior" to anyone or any other pilot group. I am just trying to relay the overwhelming sentiment of the UPS pilots that IF a buyout of Polar occurs there will be NO merging of lists in any way. This is a dog eat dog world and the IPA will take care of it's own first. You can also gain insight as to what may happen if the purchase happens with what UPS did with the purchase of Challenge.

Now as to the contract, we have two weeks of negotiations starting later this month and I'm personally cautiously optimistic that real progress will be made. The passenger contracts do not factor in at all to our talks. UPS makes approx. 1 BILLION dollars a QUARTER in PROFIT. International volume is growing like crazy and they still haven't invented an amphibious package car, so that means lots more growth for the airline. I personally am looking to see somewhere around an upper 30 to 40% pay raise along with substantial gains in the remaining areas. That would put a 12 yr captain around $260K a year min guarantee and a 4-5 yr F/O around the mid $130K min guarantee.

 

[B-atch]

AHH... Don't mean to bust your bubble FREIGHTNAZI, but PAC does have a merger policy in its ALPA wa. You cannot simply march on the property and "RAPE" the pilot group as you did to Challenge... We will fight for a fair and equitable integration...I suspect this is a sticky point and one of the reasons UPS has not acquired POLAR yet..

 

[FreightNazi]

AHH... Don't mean to bust your bubble FREIGHTNAZI, but PAC does have a merger policy in its ALPA wa. You cannot simply march on the property and "RAPE" the pilot group as you did to Challenge... We will fight for a fair and equitable integration...I suspect this is a sticky point and one of the reasons UPS has not acquired POLAR yet..

One "minor" problem with your theory, the UPS pilots are NOT alpa! Look what happened to the alpa TWA pilots when non alpa AA bought them. If UPS buys Polar, look for UPS to cherry pick what it wants ( 400s and int'l route authority ) and either not buy the rest or $hitcan it.

 

[Yank McCobb]

One "minor" problem with your theory, the UPS pilots are NOT alpa! Look what happened to the alpa TWA pilots when non alpa AA bought them. If UPS buys Polar, look for UPS to cherry pick what it wants ( 400s and int'l route authority ) and either not buy the rest or $hitcan it.

Agreed, agreed....and agreed.

Right, wrong or otherwise that is what will happen. If I were at Polar I would be preparing for this "fact" and not hiding behind the ALPA merger language in your CBA and hoping for the best.

 

[Whale Rider]

One "minor" problem with your theory, the UPS pilots are NOT alpa! Look what happened to the alpa TWA pilots when non alpa AA bought them. If UPS buys Polar, look for UPS to cherry pick what it wants ( 400s and int'l route authority ) and either not buy the rest or $hitcan it.

Cherry Pick??? Hahahahaha! Good One Frieght Nazi!!!!! Jeez talk about believing your own press!!! Hahahahah!!!!!