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Upgrading aircraft, thoughts?

CDogg

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Boss has decided it's time to upgrade. We currently operate a Lear 55, and he would like something with a bit more room. Coast to coast anytime of the year, and the ability to make Europe out of the Northeast nonstop, coming back stop is OK.

Looking at something in the 5-8mil range.

Typical long haul trips are in the 3-4.5 hour range, but we do just as many trips in the .5-1.5hr range.

About a fourth of the trips are 4 adults, 3-4 kids w/lots of bags. Rest of the trips are usually 1-4 adults with light baggage.

He doesn't like Hawkers.

He mentioned the X because it goes fast. Late 90's models in the price range.

He also mentioned the Falcon 50. Great bang for buck. We have a 50-4 w/proline 21 offered to us in the low 5mil range totally refurbished in 2009.

Falcon 2000 on the higher end of the price range.
Challenger 300 is too expensive aquisition.
Challenger 601 has a high DOC, 604 still too pricey.

Looking at other ideas if anyone has any???

Thanks!
 

con-pilot

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Well one thing is certain, now is one of the best times to upgrade, as long as you realize that if you are going to sell, or try to sell, your current aircraft that the same forces that are making am upgrade so lucrative in today's market will have the same negative effect on the sale of your current aircraft.

As for the type, I'll admit my predigest and recommend a Falcon 50EX, some really great bargains on that aircraft out there now. Not saying that the Citation X is not as good as the 50EX, has about the same performance, except for speed of course. But in cabin comfort the 50EX is better than the X.

Take a good long demo flight in both types and see which your boss prefers.

Have fun and good hunting.
 

CDogg

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Well one thing is certain, now is one of the best times to upgrade, as long as you realize that if you are going to sell, or try to sell, your current aircraft that the same forces that are making am upgrade so lucrative in today's market will have the same negative effect on the sale of your current aircraft.

He's accepted the fact that the two aircraft he owns now will never be what he bought them for, and is prepared for losing money on them, which is a good attitude. Really pushing the 50 as it has quite a bit more baggage space 115cuft vs 87cuft with the Citation... not to mention the ease of going in and out of some of the short fields we operate out of.
 

con-pilot

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He's accepted the fact that the two aircraft he owns now will never be what he bought them for, and is prepared for losing money on them, which is a good attitude. Really pushing the 50 as it has quite a bit more baggage space 115cuft vs 87cuft with the Citation... not to mention the ease of going in and out of some of the short fields we operate out of.

One more thing about the 50EX, is that unless your passengers are very overweight and they carry lead bars in their luggage, you can fill all the seats and take full fuel and still be under MGTOW.

Not too many other corporate jets can make that claim.


Oh, now why anyone would want to have all the seats filled for a six hour plus flight, I don't know. There's a lot of room in the cabin, but not that much. The most passengers we ever had on maximum range flights were six, which happed a few times when we went to London from the US.
 

guido411

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Really pushing the 50 as it has quite a bit more baggage space 115cuft vs 87cuft with the Citation.

Keep in mind passengers always grow into the space they have. If you have 115 cuft of space, you're going to be loading 114.9 cuft of bags.

Not to take anything away from the 50, it's a great airplane, but why no Hawker? To slow? Not enough baggage? You can get an 850XP (maybe even with some warranty left) in your price range and it's another fill the seats/fill the tanks and go airplane.
 
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Gulfstream 200

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There's a reason old airplanes change hands so often...a 5mil refurbished Falcon 50 sounds great until you try and maintain it for a few years...then its an expensive, old airplane. In the older, used market your MX budget is as useful info as your purchase budget.

Also, 8 people in a Falcon 50 for trips like that? has your boss been in a 50? with 8 people? Its small.

I'm with guido, get something newer. Then go business class to Europe. It will be a hell of a lot more comfortable and practical. You're just not in a realistic money range for what you want to do.

Falcons are great airplanes, just horrific to maintain once they are old. Night and day compared to a Learjet or a Hawker.

Good luck!
 
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ttflyer

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G-200s are getting pretty cheap. North of 5m, but not by much. It's a lot of airplane for the money...
 

NCherches

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I have a X Ill sell ya for 5.75 mil... :)
 

jonjuan

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NJA, 2000 F2000 share, $700K + 2005 CX share, $700K. Problem solved.
 

Gulfstream 200

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NJA, 2000 F2000 share, $700K + 2005 CX share, $700K. Problem solved.

Yes, investing in old Netjet aircraft. Thats where the smart money is heading today.
 

con-pilot

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Falcon 50 to Eur with 7 pax= torture. Done it.


I have to agree, with six passengers they seemed to have no problems from the US to London, but seven would be pushing it.

Of course I didn't care how crowed they got in the back, I always had the same amount of room. :p
 

727gm

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G-III (grandfathered)

They're cheap and getting cheaper all the time. And you'll be all spooled-up on Gulfstreams when it's time for the G-IV.
 
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semperfido

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I have to agree, with six passengers they seemed to have no problems from the US to London, but seven would be pushing it.

Of course I didn't care how crowed they got in the back, I always had the same amount of room. :p

How true, back then I could go 7 hrs with only one pee break. I guess I am spoiled now with our own crew lav upfront. Don't even have to see the pax until destination.
 

con-pilot

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How true, back then I could go 7 hrs with only one pee break. I guess I am spoiled now with our own crew lav upfront. Don't even have to see the pax until destination.


We had a couple of trips from VNY-BGR-EGGW with six passengers in the 50EX, only real problem was finding enough space for the catering. (Big eaters. :p)

Now in the 900EX, with the foward lav, I never worried about drinking too much water.
 

Gulfstream 200

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G-III (grandfathered)

They're cheap and getting cheaper all the time. And you'll be all spooled-up on Gulfstreams when it's time for the G-IV.

The first sentence is why one might not want to buy one (lol)

BTW you can get a GIV in his price range now (under 7mil)
 

JJET44

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Hey G200,
you are a confusing person. Your screen name is G200 but it looks like you've flown every G but the 200. You mention Gulfstreams about 10 times yet you say that you're a Embraer Lineage Captain? Are you trying to confuse us?
JJet
 

Gulfstream 200

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Hey G200,
you are a confusing person. Your screen name is G200 but it looks like you've flown every G but the 200. You mention Gulfstreams about 10 times yet you say that you're a Embraer Lineage Captain? Are you trying to confuse us?
JJet

I apologize for the confusion my brother, Yes I have logged some time in the ole' IAI-1126...and I have no comment. Its not a Gulfstream, its an aborted Astra...:)

Im a Grumman Guy - these beauties only come from Savannah and its all I will fly. I have the jacket, the hat, the flight bag, etc etc...I even hear they are making Gulfstream underoos - and I'm all over those! BTW - I only fly at FL510 and I take a lot of pictures of the HUD and the airshow because people dig that.

I keep in touch with all my fellow Grummanese down there in GA and I was instrumental in convincing them to keep the yoke in the Mighty G650. FBW or not I dont want any French pansy type sidestick, I want a big ole yoke with the Grumman logo lookin' at me for 15hrs in cruise. It reminds me how far I have come in life.

All this talk about the Silly SuperGlobal. I bet that thing will have sidesticks and wont have a prayer at out-turning an F/18 at FL510.
 

Flying Illini

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NJA, 2000 F2000 share, $700K + 2005 CX share, $700K. Problem solved.
Problem solved? You just put this guy and his co-workers out on the street since there is now no need for an in-house department. Nice. :rolleyes:
 
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