Upgrade time at chautauqua

[Rob M.]

What is the upgrade time at CHQ and Colgan?

 

[TheBigH]

What is the upgrade time at CHQ and Colgan?

Colgan: Beech is under a year if you have the time, Saab about year and a half to two years.

CHQ: Last I heard on the 145 is 2-3 years, probably slowing down. On the 170 probably twice that long.

 

[dav8or]

We are getting 26 planes this year so about 250 new hires. Right now we have 1200 pilots so in theory if we have half of them CA/FO then we need 1200 more pilots for you to upgrade. If we continue to grow at the same rate (which I doubt) then you are looking at 4-5 years. These times could change also based on attristion but we are only seeing a trickle at this time.

Chautauqua could end up parking 33 EMB145's if USAir tanks or depending how the Air Wiskey thing plays out also the American Connection contract will come up in a few years and we could see another 15 EMB140's go away. Our CEO has made no secrect about moving towards the 170/190 and away from the 50 seat market. Given the opportunity in the future you may see more fleet transformation than growth which would slow down your chances to upgrade.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Well gosh guys...come on. Did you really think that the rapid-fire upgrades would continue indefinately? No airline can continue to grow year-after-year. At some point they will find equalibrium.

Thats why you have to pay careful attention to First Officer compensation, reserve work rules, and job security during contract negotiations...

Respectfully,
Chautauqua Alumni - Class of 1996

 

[h25b]

Well gosh guys...come on. Did you really think that the rapid-fire upgrades would continue indefinately? No airline can continue to grow year-after-year. At some point they will find equalibrium.

Thats why you have to pay careful attention to First Officer compensation, reserve work rules, and job security during contract negotiations...

Respectfully,
Chautauqua Alumni - Class of 1996

F.O. pay rates have been virtually ignored by every contract ratified in recent memory. Especially recently, it's all about new, cool, fast jets nowadays... Right?

I'm loving the new Comair concessions. I was with CHQ when Bedford first came in, the first thing he tried was EXACTLY what Comair just agreed to (and that was back in 1999). It's such an old trick I can't believe anyone still falls for it.

By the way FurloughedAgain, my jet's newer than yours now... Go in and asked for a paycut so you guys can get newer equipment.

Respectfully,
Chautauqua Alumni - Class of 1999

 

[FurloughedAgain]

No response. So what do you think H25B?

I'm guessing they're either:

a: in shock at the prospect that the company might ever stop growing or,

b: so emberassed by their First Officer max payrates that they're speechless

 

[brew3departure]

Furloughed again,

If your nickname here is true, I hope you can change your name soon to "recalled again".

Why no responses? If you want to be really proactive, seek the members of our EC out and tell them -- most of us have been hearing this drudge on message boards like this for some time now.

Are you arrogant enough to think that you saying "Better watch out for F/O pay rates, there, guys" or better yet "How about improving reserve work rules?" SERIOUSLY? Or my favorite "Hey, Bob, you know, upgrades at CHQ aren't going to continue forever." Wow. Captain Obvious, your table is ready.

Pardon the lame attempt at sarcasm here, but all knowing, condescending statements like yours are pretty tired. The people doing the negotiating know this - they've been listening to it for the last three years as well.

I've listened to many, many other guys and gals from other regional airlines (do I even need to mention them?) talking about how their airline is better, and how they are going to secure the best contract, and show all the rest of us. And, most, if not all of us have said "Great! Go do it, show us the way..." Has it happened? No. I see very few posts from those same people on message boards like these.

So, as difficult as it may be for you folks to believe, people on our EC and whomever the negotiating committee happens to be are well aware of the points you made. If you don't believe me, Mr. CHQ Alumni of 1996, please, do yourself a favor and get in touch with them.

I'm not trying to ignite a flame war here. All the complaints and attitudes about contracts and growth and stealing flying have been played out and repeated ad nauseum -- but to answer your question, I think the lack of responses is probably because we've all heard it so much, so often, that we're tired of it. At least I am. And, you goaded me into responding - touche.

-brew3

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Brew,

You're an F/O at Chautauqua -- i'm not. Why don't YOU get in touch with your executive council and (more specifically) your local council representative and demand that during the next round of section 6 negotiations that First Officer compensation be a priority.

Guys like you who realize that growth is not indefinate are not the problem Brew. Its the pilots who say "we dont need to worry about first officer payscales over 5 years because we upgrade in 2 years!" -- those are the ones to worry about. Their opinions are not based in reality and they're not going to concern themselves with junior pilots when the time comes.

Look, i'm not trying to raise your dander here. I just hate to see guys come on this website and ask "How long is the upgrade at XYZ?"

How long is the upgrade? Frankly it doesn't matter. The upgrade time TODAY might be quite a bit different than it will be in 2, 3, 4, ...10 years when YOUR turn comes.

You imply that "yeah yeah..we know. We need to get on those F/O payscales and make this a career position"

But for every man like you, there there are three pilots who DON'T know... who have unrealistic expectations for their career advancement and who will be in a world of hurt when they suddenly find themselves in the right seat at Chautauqua for 5+ years with no further increases in sight.

So no. I'm not going to call your EC. I'm offering a little advice from a guy who has been there before. Take my advice or ignore it. Thats your business...

... but it there's one person who should be on the phone with the Chautauqua MEC... It's you.

Good luck

 

[brew3departure]

Okay, sounds good

Thanks for the response. Your concerns that are shared by many of us (self included) are noted -- and when the time comes to start negotiations again, believe me, I will make it clear that F/O rates that stop at 4 years are unacceptable. Of course, I'm just a mushroom -- but I'll make it known either way!

I agree, no matter what the airline is, coming on and asking "How quick is the upgrade" is a little naive, perhaps a little shortsighted. Perhaps the guy asking was only trying to get a snapshot of what's going on right now -- if that's the case, how can you fault him/her for that?

Take care,
-brew3

 

[labbats]

Oh, you mean that if I get hired at an airline that's upgrading everyone in 5 years, that there's no guarantee I'll get upgraded in 5 years from my hire date? Wow.

I'm amazed at how many people just finished IOE with me and were ready to jump ship with that same attitude. Unbelievable.

How about this question... What was upgrade at Chautauqua 5 years ago from now?

 

[TWAER]

It was the same as it was 10 years ago, then 5 years later minus two years. Only if you we hired three years before that. Sometimes a guy could upgrade quicker if he or she were street captains hired five years later. Get it? Good

 

[StarChecker]

I spoke with Crew Planning last week and was told to expect a June upgrade class. That would make exactly 2 years for me. Of course, that's if Airways survives.

 

[kngarthur]

Colgan: Beech is under a year if you have the time, Saab about year and a half to two years.

CHQ: Last I heard on the 145 is 2-3 years, probably slowing down. On the 170 probably twice that long.

Actually it's about 1.5 years