Upgrade Reject

[Hipster Loser]

Do the FO's who get dismissed have trouble finding work at other airlines. How hard or easy is it to fail the upgrade. Is the PIC ride so difficult or are these sub par pilots. Do fast upgrade times have anything to do with it. Is the dismissal rate greater at the majors and nonexistent at the regionals or more so on jet vs. T-prop equipment.

 

[RJDC]

We have an asian female 727 S/O at UPS that has tried to upgrade to F/O numerous times and for various reasons she can't make the grade. It will be interesting to see what happens when we finally retire the last 3 crew aircraft. Will she get one more shot to upgrade or has the company already made her some type of deal to keep her from trying again? Time will tell. The bottom line with her is that as long as she is employed here, NO pilot can ever get fired for reasons related to proficiency and failing a checkride. She's Miss Job Security!

 

[blzr]

Do the FO's who get dismissed have trouble finding work at other airlines. How hard or easy is it to fail the upgrade. Is the PIC ride so difficult or are these sub par pilots. Do fast upgrade times have anything to do with it. Is the dismissal rate greater at the majors and nonexistent at the regionals or more so on jet vs. T-prop equipment.

Sometimes no, mostly yes as far as finding work. A PIC checkride really isn't about how well you fly the airplane, you should already be able to do everything above standard. It's mostly about making decisions. Most airlines hire future captains, not lifetime f/o's. You could pass the 121 type ride after your initial training sims, but that wouldn't make you a captain. Line flying is about 30% of the job, dealing with PAX, ground crew, gate agents, scheduelers, dispatch, chief pilot, ASSistant Chief Pilot and the list goes on.... is the biggest part of the job.

Basically, flying skills are important, but decision making and people skills are the keys to having a long and happy flying career.

 

[AA717driver]

TWA used to (in the really olden days) fire those who failed on the first try. Many went on to successful careers at Delta, UAL, etc. I guess everyone knew it didn't take much to get whacked back then.

IMO, up or out is stupid. This is a job, not the military.TC

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Here's what happens when you upgrade the wrong person.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=881251#post881251

...talk about a string of failures.

 

[blingair]

Geez, what'd that guy ever do to you? You're baggin on him everwhere. The two guys are dead and their famlies are sad. You being a donkey isn't going to change anything, but some people feel better by putting others down.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I believe at Mesa you got 2 busts, and the 3rd one you were gone. I can understand one.....every single person out there can have a bad day and f*ck something up. But busting the same ride twice causes me to scratch my head a little bit. If you can't get it right in 2 tries, something is wrong.

Of course, my old skool flight instructor used to say, "When it comes to bustin' checkrides, there are 2 kinds of people: those who have and those who will."

 

[retired guy]

Well Captain, your old flight instructor was wrong.

 

[Guitar rocker]

We have an asian female 727 S/O at UPS that has tried to upgrade to F/O numerous times and for various reasons she can't make the grade. It will be interesting to see what happens when we finally retire the last 3 crew aircraft. Will she get one more shot to upgrade or has the company already made her some type of deal to keep her from trying again? Time will tell. The bottom line with her is that as long as she is employed here, NO pilot can ever get fired for reasons related to proficiency and failing a checkride. She's Miss Job Security!

And what would have happened if this were a male you were talking about??? I am guessing...probably would have been fired after the second or third try. I have heard (as we all have) of so many stories such as this one at UAL. It probably costs less to keep them on the payroll rather than to fire them and go through the court system.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Well Captain, your old flight instructor was wrong.

What??

My old CP was a military check airman, and he told me that in his umpteen years of doing it, he NEVER saw a perfect checkride. There was always SOMETHING you could bust somebody on, even if it was just small. You just had to consider the whole.