Unusual unusual attitude recovery

[GravityHater]

During a recent checkride (successful) I ran across something I had not heard before.
The DE asked what is the correct recovery for a nose high, 10 degree banked, low airspeed condition. He said 'no' when I gave the response I was both taught, and have read a thousand times.
'His' correct response was hold, or increase the bank angle. Do NOT lower the nose through the use of pitch control. Allow the bank angle (loss of vertical component of lift) to dissipate the nose high attitude and then when pitch = 0 degrees, level the wings.
This avoids the negative G associated with pushing the yoke, and airframe twisting often seen when one pushes and rolls wings-level, in one motion.
Anyone have anything I can read on this?

 

[Lead Sled]

It's SOP when flying jets. Like you said, it avoids putting negative G's on the airplane. It works very well.

Lead Sled

 

[CDVdriver]

Interesting....

I don't think you're supposed to push the yoke in a way you get neg. g's.
Recover from the high pitch attitude in a normal way and roll wings level.
The threat is a stall so pitch down (with bank do not recover from the bank)
when the speed is in a safe region again recover from the turn.
With inexperienced pilots holding or increasing the bank angle could lead to interesting results like a spiral dive.
I'll give it a try though with my current instr. student.

 

[freightdoggie]

Full Power, increase bank to no more than 90 degrees, let the nose drop through the air, kind of like a lazy eight. As you reach the horizon, roll wings level and level your pitch. No G load on the airplane.

 

[bigsky]

That is pretty common technique- although I have seen it employed more for a recovery from an extreme nose up attitude. Also it may be necessary in larger airplanes do to fact that elevator is not as effective and may not be capable of lowering the nose.

I would also point out jets tend to differ in their recovery technique when in a nose low. The standard recovery is 1) reduce power, 2) roll wings level,,,etc..
Many jets would not have you reduce power initially as this can cause a further nose down moment and the elevator may not be capable of countering this.

 

[Lead Sled]

Occassionally you will run into diferences based on aircraft type when it comes to unusual attitude "nose low" recoveries. Examples would be the landing gear and spoilers. There is really no such thing as "one technique fits all" situations.

Lead Sled

 

[GravityHater]

The other new thing was stalls. Just power out of it and clean up. No stuffing the nose down! Much more civilized.

 

[bigsky]

With regards to the stalls, you were most likely recovering from an iminent stall, which is normally practiced. This recovery is normally initiated at the onset of the stick shaker and with enough thrust the plane will fly out of this. On the other hand, I have never been in a full stall in a transport category aircraft but the procedure is to lower the nose like any airplane ... however most likely the altitude loss could be 5000 feet or greater especially at high altitudes. My friend was actually on an acceptance flight of a dc-10 that did a full stall. The test pilot was very experienced and had done this many times but whatever happened it took almost 20000 feet to recover. As "leadslead" points out there are numerous difference from airplane to airplane. I am in no way proclaiming to have any authority on this subject but I would guess if you researched the full stall recovery in your airplane that you do have to lower the nose. Probably something not to be practiced in a swept wing aircraft.

 

[Lead Sled]

Swept-wing, T-tailed jets can have some definite quirks when it comes to stalls. Most of these aircraft are equipped with both a stick shaker and a stick pusher - a definate indication that they really don't want you to get one into a stall. Remember, not all airplanes have stall characteristics that are as benign as a Cherokee. Yee Haw.

When it comes to jets, most require that you should initiate stall recovery at the first indication of a stall - either airframe buffet or stick shaker activation. Recoveries are initiated by simultaneously rolling wings level, maintaining existing pitch attitude and adding power. As has been mentioned, you don't lower the nose, you add power. The point is that a stall is not allowed to develop or progress to the point where the stick pusher is activated because the airplanes have a tendency to do nasty things if a full stall develops and that's when bad things happen to good people.

Lead Sled

 

[MGXsport]

Being on the subject of stalls and bad attitudes...

I was talking to my co-worker/instructor the other day about stall characteristics on Bonanzas. He was telling me how when they stall they have a very swift roll rate and it is better to continue it rather then to go against it and be inverted.

Is this something you would do on your checkride if it happened to you?

 

[CaSyndrm]

None of this is new, stall recoveries and unusual attitudes. I'm not going to re-read the above but the ones that say roll the wings and don't push the nose forward are correct.

 

[avbug]

Bear in mind that many replies received here are by those with recent turbojet or current turbojet training. Simply because a nose high attitude recovery is made by unloading the wing to drop the nose and reduce the vertical vector in a turbojet, doesn't mean it's always appropriate or necessary in a light piston airplane.

The reason it's done in a turbojet it to prevent reduced or negative loadings on the wings, especially in aircraft that may be experiencing a high rate of climb. You can wrinkle the wings on a turbojet by pushing over, instead of unloading it. You can also cavitate oil pumps and fuel pumps. This is seldom the case in light airplanes, which suffer typically from none of those problems, and have a very low vertical moment in a nose high attitude.

Appropriately, if the airspeed is bleeding off, leveling the wings is better than increasing bank angle. Without experiencing a negative loading, the nose may still be brought back to the horizon comfortably with wings level, and you've just reduced your margin from the stall.

Generally speaking, there is nothing wrong with unloading the wing with a bank but it's a turbojet technique, and is neither necessary nor always appropriate for a recovery in a light airplane. (Nor certain large heavy airplanes, either).

The Bonanza doesn't have unusual or swift/violent stall characteristics, particularly with an unaccelerated stall. In the case of a highly accelerated stall, it is subject to the same performance and limitations that any other aircraft in it's class might be expected to display. If the aircraft drops a wing or rolls excessively during a stall or recovery, it is either a large rigging issue, or pilot error. It has nothing to do with the type design.

 

[freightdoggie]

Cross-Controlled stalls in the Bonanza can get pretty tricky, maybe your friend had just experienced one and that is why he stated he would "roll through it"

If you get slow enough, they will snap right over and you will begin the recovery technique from your back. Can be an eye opener for someone who has never tried them before.