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Unrealistic Expectations
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ArcticFlier
SpdmodehdgmodebugV21/2bnk
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Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
- Joined
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Fly, your remembrances stirred some early memories for me, too.
As a child, I would lay in the grass of my backyard on a Saturday morning while dozens of WWII and Korean war aircraft flew overhead on weekend training missions. In 1956, they were less than 15 years old! My dad pointed out the cargo planes called "flying box cars". I can still hear the sound as it filled the whole sky, drowning out the transistor radios playing Chuck Berry and Elvis.
Once in a while, one of the new jets passed overhead, and sonic booms were common until they were outlawed by dairy farmers and those with fine china. Plates would fall from wall niches, and cows were scared to death. It was fun while it lasted.
Most of the planes came from Willow Grove NAS, just 35 miles away. What a time to be alive.
As a child, I would lay in the grass of my backyard on a Saturday morning while dozens of WWII and Korean war aircraft flew overhead on weekend training missions. In 1956, they were less than 15 years old! My dad pointed out the cargo planes called "flying box cars". I can still hear the sound as it filled the whole sky, drowning out the transistor radios playing Chuck Berry and Elvis.
Once in a while, one of the new jets passed overhead, and sonic booms were common until they were outlawed by dairy farmers and those with fine china. Plates would fall from wall niches, and cows were scared to death. It was fun while it lasted.
Most of the planes came from Willow Grove NAS, just 35 miles away. What a time to be alive.
Last edited:
This thread is a wonder to read. 6 months ago I wasn't sure if I was ever going to see my dream come to fruition. 22 years old, wife, baby, 10.00 an hour job, and didn't think it would ever happen.
But because God is great, I am now about to be a Commerical licensed pilot, living off of loan money, without a job. I took the plunge and I was happy, until the bill collectors started calling talking about taking me to court. Kinda feels like the walls are starting to crumble around me, but after reading this thread, I am refreshed. I no longer doubt that I made the right choice. I don't know where this road is leading me and my family, but I know it will be a great place when I get there, and I have God to thank for that.
Tomorrow will be a great day. Why? Because I get to fly.
But because God is great, I am now about to be a Commerical licensed pilot, living off of loan money, without a job. I took the plunge and I was happy, until the bill collectors started calling talking about taking me to court. Kinda feels like the walls are starting to crumble around me, but after reading this thread, I am refreshed. I no longer doubt that I made the right choice. I don't know where this road is leading me and my family, but I know it will be a great place when I get there, and I have God to thank for that.
Tomorrow will be a great day. Why? Because I get to fly.
Airpiraterob
LaForge Sayz:
- Joined
- May 21, 2002
- Posts
- 646
olden times...
way way back in the day. ah i remember it well..
1992 (chuckle)
i just started college...and flight school was a big part of the cirriculum. The instructors there had 2000 hours and 300 multi, just dying to hear that call from trans states or eagle or great lakes. Fustrated to hell that they have a logbook full of 1700 hours of dual given. countless first solo's and countless checkrides signed off. I had no idea it really was that bad. My parents had nothing to do with flying. We didn't know anyone who flys for a living. We were in the dark about this secret society of flying. Believe me general populace is in the dark about the scope of the industry. I had no idea and to me ignorance was bliss. I was gonna learn to fly.
Sudden change to the fast lane. Flight schools touted retirement of everyone in the majors, so that meant you need to spend your money cause a huge need for pilots exists right now! Everyone signed up. Everyone spent their money wether or not they had their own or someone elses. Instructors were getting hired by regionals with 1000 hours and a multi rating. no hours. not a sausage. They went off happy knowing that things were happening fast and they would be captain in a 747 at 25. I even knew their dis-illusion. I shook my head. I saw what it was like just briefly before the floodgates opened onto the market. Some of the worst quality pilots came out then. I met a few just recently that said "yeah i taught for 300 hours, i couldn't do that anymore. I got so tired of it" Heh, dont even try talking till you did it for at least a thousand. come to think of it just dont talk. The dot com explosion was too good to be true. this looked just like it. please learn from it.
So here they are. The self-professed vunderkind's of pilots. Each one telling their little brothers and sisters and freinds back home how they're gonna be in that big jet real soon and making big money. "I cant wait to make 100k a year at 30" Their friends buy it and go for it too. Self perpetuating Lemming madness. C'mon men! legs go jump into it and only then really know what were getting into. A few actually make it. Lucky few. I hope they make it past the furloughs.
Through my own journey I've watched, listened. I even thought that i could make it in there fast. But I knew that things were happening too fast. Then some a$$hole flys into a building. Right then I knew I would be way over 30 before I made it into the majors. But I'm not a masochist. Why subject myself to bickering and squabling over unfathomable raises and contracts and unions and TA's? I don't know for sure. I could camp out at a regional for years before finding a big jet. It hit me. Why do I want to fly a big jet? Does that make my life better? No. I still have the same crap going on in life and at home. I just need to find out the two questions. "How much do i get paid" and "how much time off do i get and when is that?"
It takes a while but you will find out soon enough. I'm lucky at 29 to discover something. Theres two factors. 1.) Quality of work. 2.) Quality of life outside of work. They're both good? then STAY! Can you have a dog with all this? Can you save 20% into an IRA and still afford to get a pizza after paying your bills? That's my qualifier. Find a job you're happy at. Enjoy where you are. Quit moving so fast cause you will hit that wall youre not seeing ahead of you. Look back and see if you made time for yourself to enjoy what you were doing and where.
The young pilots that can't see this. Well, how fortunate they are to be greedy for airline money. How fortunate they are to be 27 and vomit complaints about only making $35000 a year in this small plane. Spoiled Brats. Do you think your parents upgraded into the house they have now at 30? Heck no they saved money. upgraded slowly through time. That house now is from 20+ years of work. Just cause youre a pilot dosent mean youre entitled to alot of money right now. You now have to wait and live and work for what you want.
Immediate gratification is so immersed its expected. Tough. Live with it. Adapt or get sneers and rude awakenings. I can make $40k a year and be happy or $100k a year and be miserable. In the long run wich one do you think you will pick? I can get a nice pizza on $40k and nice beer too. just like I can at 100k. Difference? I'll be able to stomach the pizza at 65 instead of having ulcers form that 100k a year job.
enjoy your journey. the destination just might suck cock.
way way back in the day. ah i remember it well..
1992 (chuckle)
i just started college...and flight school was a big part of the cirriculum. The instructors there had 2000 hours and 300 multi, just dying to hear that call from trans states or eagle or great lakes. Fustrated to hell that they have a logbook full of 1700 hours of dual given. countless first solo's and countless checkrides signed off. I had no idea it really was that bad. My parents had nothing to do with flying. We didn't know anyone who flys for a living. We were in the dark about this secret society of flying. Believe me general populace is in the dark about the scope of the industry. I had no idea and to me ignorance was bliss. I was gonna learn to fly.
Sudden change to the fast lane. Flight schools touted retirement of everyone in the majors, so that meant you need to spend your money cause a huge need for pilots exists right now! Everyone signed up. Everyone spent their money wether or not they had their own or someone elses. Instructors were getting hired by regionals with 1000 hours and a multi rating. no hours. not a sausage. They went off happy knowing that things were happening fast and they would be captain in a 747 at 25. I even knew their dis-illusion. I shook my head. I saw what it was like just briefly before the floodgates opened onto the market. Some of the worst quality pilots came out then. I met a few just recently that said "yeah i taught for 300 hours, i couldn't do that anymore. I got so tired of it" Heh, dont even try talking till you did it for at least a thousand. come to think of it just dont talk. The dot com explosion was too good to be true. this looked just like it. please learn from it.
So here they are. The self-professed vunderkind's of pilots. Each one telling their little brothers and sisters and freinds back home how they're gonna be in that big jet real soon and making big money. "I cant wait to make 100k a year at 30" Their friends buy it and go for it too. Self perpetuating Lemming madness. C'mon men! legs go jump into it and only then really know what were getting into. A few actually make it. Lucky few. I hope they make it past the furloughs.
Through my own journey I've watched, listened. I even thought that i could make it in there fast. But I knew that things were happening too fast. Then some a$$hole flys into a building. Right then I knew I would be way over 30 before I made it into the majors. But I'm not a masochist. Why subject myself to bickering and squabling over unfathomable raises and contracts and unions and TA's? I don't know for sure. I could camp out at a regional for years before finding a big jet. It hit me. Why do I want to fly a big jet? Does that make my life better? No. I still have the same crap going on in life and at home. I just need to find out the two questions. "How much do i get paid" and "how much time off do i get and when is that?"
It takes a while but you will find out soon enough. I'm lucky at 29 to discover something. Theres two factors. 1.) Quality of work. 2.) Quality of life outside of work. They're both good? then STAY! Can you have a dog with all this? Can you save 20% into an IRA and still afford to get a pizza after paying your bills? That's my qualifier. Find a job you're happy at. Enjoy where you are. Quit moving so fast cause you will hit that wall youre not seeing ahead of you. Look back and see if you made time for yourself to enjoy what you were doing and where.
The young pilots that can't see this. Well, how fortunate they are to be greedy for airline money. How fortunate they are to be 27 and vomit complaints about only making $35000 a year in this small plane. Spoiled Brats. Do you think your parents upgraded into the house they have now at 30? Heck no they saved money. upgraded slowly through time. That house now is from 20+ years of work. Just cause youre a pilot dosent mean youre entitled to alot of money right now. You now have to wait and live and work for what you want.
Immediate gratification is so immersed its expected. Tough. Live with it. Adapt or get sneers and rude awakenings. I can make $40k a year and be happy or $100k a year and be miserable. In the long run wich one do you think you will pick? I can get a nice pizza on $40k and nice beer too. just like I can at 100k. Difference? I'll be able to stomach the pizza at 65 instead of having ulcers form that 100k a year job.
enjoy your journey. the destination just might suck cock.
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,625
FurloughedAgain
Cabin Heating & Air Tech.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2002
- Posts
- 1,657
AirPirateRob
AirPirateRob,
Outstanding post. Of course you said everything that we ALL wanted to say but didnt -- words like those dont translate very well from the right seat to the left.
I guess they shouldnt. If I were a Captain I certainly wouldnt want a copilot stepping on my dreams and aspirations.
You know what I feel lately though? Jealousy. A lot of it.
Hey i'll be the first to admit it. I'm scared to death.
After 7 airlines, 9 initials, 3 furloughs, and a bankruptcy I look around the industry and see that things just arent getting any better. ACA just announced another 100 furloughs and you know what scares me the most?
If my current employer decides to stop taking aircraft deliveries and start furloughing i'm going to be back on the street again and THIS time, there are very few companies who will be willing to hire a rapidly aging professional copilot.
So yeah I'm jealous of the 24, 25, 26 year-old Captains in the left seat. Not because they're captains or because they have another 35 years left in their careers from which to recover from this downturn but because they has at least SOME semblance of stability!!!
I'd give anything to have some comfort that my job will remain and that I can count on the paycheck cashing.
Now that i'm back on the "regional" side of the "regional/major" civil-war i'm desperately afraid that the mainline carrier who owns my company will decide that it is in ALPA's best interest to start a jets-for-jobs fiasco here!
Maybe my own expectations are unreasonable.
I expect that my company will be managed thoughtfully and will provide a product that is valuable and economical to our mainline partner.
I expect that the so-called "union" to whome I have paid dues for the better part of 10 years now will actually function in MY best interests as well as in the best interests of the mainline pilots.
I expect that my fellow pilots will negotiate fairly to provide job security to EVERY pilot on the seniority list from the most junior through the most senior, rather than protecting pay, benefits, and retirement for only the most senior on the list.
Sorry for the "glass-half-empty" post today but I cant seem to get away from the bad news.
AirPirateRob,
Outstanding post. Of course you said everything that we ALL wanted to say but didnt -- words like those dont translate very well from the right seat to the left.
I guess they shouldnt. If I were a Captain I certainly wouldnt want a copilot stepping on my dreams and aspirations.
You know what I feel lately though? Jealousy. A lot of it.
Hey i'll be the first to admit it. I'm scared to death.
After 7 airlines, 9 initials, 3 furloughs, and a bankruptcy I look around the industry and see that things just arent getting any better. ACA just announced another 100 furloughs and you know what scares me the most?
If my current employer decides to stop taking aircraft deliveries and start furloughing i'm going to be back on the street again and THIS time, there are very few companies who will be willing to hire a rapidly aging professional copilot.
So yeah I'm jealous of the 24, 25, 26 year-old Captains in the left seat. Not because they're captains or because they have another 35 years left in their careers from which to recover from this downturn but because they has at least SOME semblance of stability!!!
I'd give anything to have some comfort that my job will remain and that I can count on the paycheck cashing.
Now that i'm back on the "regional" side of the "regional/major" civil-war i'm desperately afraid that the mainline carrier who owns my company will decide that it is in ALPA's best interest to start a jets-for-jobs fiasco here!
Maybe my own expectations are unreasonable.
I expect that my company will be managed thoughtfully and will provide a product that is valuable and economical to our mainline partner.
I expect that the so-called "union" to whome I have paid dues for the better part of 10 years now will actually function in MY best interests as well as in the best interests of the mainline pilots.
I expect that my fellow pilots will negotiate fairly to provide job security to EVERY pilot on the seniority list from the most junior through the most senior, rather than protecting pay, benefits, and retirement for only the most senior on the list.
Sorry for the "glass-half-empty" post today but I cant seem to get away from the bad news.
- US Airways will lay off another 52 pilots in June.
- American will declare bankruptcy and will lay off another 2500 pilots.
- ACA will lay off another 100 pilots on top of the 97 who have already been notified.
- National Airlines will now liquidate under chapter 7 of the bankruptcy code.
- Kit Darby is still a Captain at United.
[/list=1]
yeah... i'm in a lousy mood today.
AA717driver
A simpler time...
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2003
- Posts
- 4,908
I'm lucky...
But not for the reason you think. I have had a charmed career. I'm ex-TWA, a Capt. about to get displaced and furloughed later this year.
Why am I lucky? Because every time I start to feel sorry for myself, I run into someone else who has a whole lot sh***ier deal than I do. Sure, I thought once I upgraded, everything would be sweetness and light. I certainly thought that after AA bought TWA and ended my annual worries about having a job. Just when you thought it was safe...
I used to be scared to death that I would be 55 years old and forced to fly some dirtbag DC8 in the middle of the night. Now, I'm scared that I'll be 55 and NOT flying anything!
A couple of weeks ago, after listening to the ramp office chatter about what we were going to do when we got furloughed, I found that many of my friends are planning on leaving aviation. I thought about it a long time and decided that, like most of my fellow "aviation geeks" on this board, flying isn't what I do, it's what I am. I am an airplane driver. I don't aspire to be a CEO or airline manager(not that there's anything wrong with that ) and I don't need to live in the biggest house in town. I just want to fly airplanes.
FurloughedAgain is right--this won't last forever and, being 45, I will probably see another one of these before I retire. Strap in and hang on.
Bring on that chicken! TC
But not for the reason you think. I have had a charmed career. I'm ex-TWA, a Capt. about to get displaced and furloughed later this year.
Why am I lucky? Because every time I start to feel sorry for myself, I run into someone else who has a whole lot sh***ier deal than I do. Sure, I thought once I upgraded, everything would be sweetness and light. I certainly thought that after AA bought TWA and ended my annual worries about having a job. Just when you thought it was safe...
I used to be scared to death that I would be 55 years old and forced to fly some dirtbag DC8 in the middle of the night. Now, I'm scared that I'll be 55 and NOT flying anything!
A couple of weeks ago, after listening to the ramp office chatter about what we were going to do when we got furloughed, I found that many of my friends are planning on leaving aviation. I thought about it a long time and decided that, like most of my fellow "aviation geeks" on this board, flying isn't what I do, it's what I am. I am an airplane driver. I don't aspire to be a CEO or airline manager(not that there's anything wrong with that
) and I don't need to live in the biggest house in town. I just want to fly airplanes.FurloughedAgain is right--this won't last forever and, being 45, I will probably see another one of these before I retire. Strap in and hang on.
Bring on that chicken!
TC
FurloughedAgain
Cabin Heating & Air Tech.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2002
- Posts
- 1,657
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