United's ORD C Terminal

[tomcash]

Interesting how some turned this post into a debate about the intentions of those that were fairly compensated for their labor in the generation prior.

Some went as far as to classify those forefathers as greedy, and as responsible for the demise of the profession that has become rancid. If those individuals were gluttons with voracious appetites for compensation, does that make you charitable?

Do you feel proud that "regional" airlines are clearing hundreds of millions per year thanks to $50,000/ year jet captains??

I believe the scab wages at a certain major airline in 1986 were $50,000 for F/Os... scab wages. This was at a time when a Honda Accord cost $11,000 new.... the average single family home cost $100,000.

The simple fact is: United's C Terminal at ORD has become a whorehouse with its collection of scumbag regional operators.

End of story.

 

[SennaP1]

The simple fact is: United's C Terminal at ORD has become a whorehouse with its collection of scumbag regional operators.

End of story.

And who has allowed that? United...guess they don't care about appearances.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Tomcash,

By generalizing all regionals as scumbags you perpetuate the stereotype of an old bitter person. The industry has changed, just like the price of the honda Accord. What is it that can be done to bring "the good old days" back? You creativly mock and abuse the industy of today without offering any creative solutions. Your arguement is one that is universal within any business, pay less, try to get more, people will still do it. So, Tomcash, how is that the industry "scumbags" can change? What type of new and competitive strategic plan would you offer up? Should everyone stop flying until we get the deal we want? That would do wonders for the economy! Or should we stand outside our airplanes with our shirttails hanging out? Your distaste for the ORD situation is a reality which you must accept. Until someone with the credibility and experience can summon change it will continue to be a charitable operation filled with young people who will never meet your high expectations.

 

[SKYW Pilot]

Many of us came to work for your so called "Scumbag" carriers well before 9/11 while majors were still hiring. I didn't start this career in 1993 so I could make 85,000/year flying an RJ six legs a day for the rest of my life. As regionals go, I really like flying at Skywest, but I've been ready to move on for a while.

Secondly, I do agree to a point about the "changes" in the terminals at all the airports. It was nice seeing so many mainline aircraft (737's and 727's) parked at ORD, LAX, SFO and DEN. It's sad that the RJ has taken over. Sad for my wages and sad for the industry. I was floored when I went to ORD recently and saw all the regionals. I was taxiing out in SLC a few weeks ago and there were nine RJ's and one Delta 757 in line for takeoff. Times have definitely changed...

 

[30West]

The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in a red zone.

"Listen Betty, don't start up with your white zone ******************** again. The red zone has always been for loading and unloading, there is never stopping in a white zone....."

 

[Cloudroller]

Tom, maybe you should introduce yourself to the next scumbag RJ Ca and ask them what they did before flying the RJ. Several of the Mesa guys are J4J from UAL. I had a 15 yr DAL MD88 CA jumpseating 2 weeks ago, he said that he made 98,000 last year due to DAL droping monthly min. thats 60% less than he made in 2000. Is he a scumbag to?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

"Listen Betty, don't start up with your white zone ******************** again. The red zone has always been for loading and unloading, there is never stopping in a white zone....."

Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Many of us came to work for your so called "Scumbag" carriers well before 9/11 while majors were still hiring. I didn't start this career in 1993 so I could make 85,000/year flying an RJ six legs a day for the rest of my life. As regionals go, I really like flying at Skywest, but I've been ready to move on for a while.

Secondly, I do agree to a point about the "changes" in the terminals at all the airports. It was nice seeing so many mainline aircraft (737's and 727's) parked at ORD, LAX, SFO and DEN. It's sad that the RJ has taken over. Sad for my wages and sad for the industry. I was floored when I went to ORD recently and saw all the regionals. I was taxiing out in SLC a few weeks ago and there were nine RJ's and one Delta 757 in line for takeoff. Times have definitely changed...

Right on SKYW....I know I sure as hell wouldn't want into this industry with the way it's turned out. I started pre 9/11 myself, and now am stuck making ******************** wages while every year I get closer to a mandatory retirement, with no retirement saved.

 

[tomcash]

Suggestions to remedy this crisis?

What regional airlines have done and continue to do to the airline industry is akin to Frank Lorenzo... yet on a much grander scale. Rather than being able to destroy a small handful of airlines, regional airlines are able to destroy the entirety of large mainline airlines and their regional counterparts alike.

Pilots must unite as a group to make it more expensive for regional airlines to operate. How?

Take accountability. "Regional" pilots faulting pilots of a bygone era for their repulsive business. Pilots of major airlines are blaming regional pilots. Stop the madness, take accountability.

Pilot wages.

A company called G0Jets was specifically created to provide even lower labor costs than an already bare bones operator, Trans States Airlines. Imagine this: a company created to undercut itself! What have pilots done about this operation? Some on this forum have even supported these modern-era scabs. A list of those employed at this operation should be circulated to pilots of all airlines, all unions. Too many SNAP attitudes on this subject.

I believe Shuttle America and Mesa Air actually have a training contract, if a pilot leaves the company before a predetermined length of service the pilot will pay a fee. Who would have imagined this? Make $18,000 in annual compensation with poor working conditions to fly a jetliner and sign a contract requiring the pilot to remain at this company. Why was this signed by a single qualified pilot?

Do not fly a 70 seat airplane for an already horrific 50 seat pay rate.

 

[ReportCanoa]

There once was a lady of Totten / Whose tastes grew perverted and rotten. / She cared not for steaks / Or for pastries and cakes / But lived upon penis au gratin.

 

[getnverted]

tomcash,

You seem like a smart guy, maybe you can help me out. I don’t want to be a whore anymore! I don’t ever respond to these sorts of threads, but since you have specifically mentioned my carrier (Shuttle America) twice, for some unknown reason I’ve chosen your thread to be my first. Your generalization of my whorishness and telling me to stop is not quite good enough. What, specifically, do you suggest I do to reduce my level of whoreness and/or scumbagness?

To help you solve my problem, I’ll give you a very brief background on my career. I started in 1998 in the right seat of a Metroliner. I am now on my fourth airline, and not quite 30. I was a 4 year Captain on the Saab at Shuttle America when we merged seniority lists with Chautauqua this past fall. I am now an FO on the EMB-170 with 2 years of longevity…..oh yeah, I’m also under one of those training contracts you spoke of. I’d just assume go back to the left seat of the Saab, but the owners forgot to ask my opinion when they decided to paper shuffle us and sell us to their holding company.

The only company I really want to work for is Frontier, they haven’t called. Since they haven't called, I've put my app in at others....guess I'm not the only one as they haven't called either. Apparently you work for a great company, are they hiring, will you walk in my resume?

I didn’t set out to ruin this industry or your career, so please forgive me for my actions thus far. If the whole purpose of this thread was to bash my airline, among others, feel free to not respond. If your purpose was to share some of your wisdom and help us make this industry what you once made it, I look forward to hearing your realistic ideas. With that being said, I don’t suppose I’ll hear from you…..next time wave when you walk through the C concourse, last time you came across as a bit rude.

BTW – I’m not one of the unkempt guys lying around in the terminal. I’m one of the guys wearing my hat, with an ironed shirt, and hanging out under the terminal trying not to get arrested while I burn a quick heater.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Well Said!

 

[Prop2Jet]

O Yeah Sorry About The Saabs, We Got 118 And Well Just Go Rid Of It Also!!!!

 

[tomcash]

You are under a training contract after serving as captain for four years? Or, was it when your company was purchased your continued employment was based on signing an additional training contract. If this is the case- Why did you sign the contract extension?

Were the training contacts and wait staff wages not enough to clue you in as to the type of operation which you were signing on?

What are you doing now to oust the current lack of union representation? Each day you go to work and follow the status quo, you are contributing to the problem. Help yourself and your career plans by opening the eyes of your Shuttle America posse. They probably feel they are on the fast track to career success by literally signing on with your company.

Have the union abolish a training contract for new hires. When is your contract up for negotiation? Better yet, when is your union's term up for review? (Does your company have a truckers' union representing its pilots? It's time to give them their walking papers. This is something in which you can participate.)

As an airline pilot of 70 seat aircraft flying to all corners of the country, you should be compensated. Why is it fair that you are not able to own a home in the city you work based on your airline salary? Stop allowing it to happen. Take some accountability.

The higher regional airlines' costs, the less lucrative it is for airlines to use these operators.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Haha. Bitter old men, they sure are funny/sad to listen to.

Toothpaste is out of the tube, so let's just go fly!!!

 

[Prop2Jet]

Yes lets all stop flying at 12pm on the 12th in December! Our Unions will all call each other and organize and walk out. But don't tell anyone! Once we all stop flying for a day then we will have them by the balls! Lets act up! Coup d'état! Coup d'etat!
Tomcash, you have been elected our regional airline mascot. Lets tell our companies that we no longer want training contracts, we want more money and we want our 401K's matched to 7%. And when none of this happens we can all say "thank you for coming to Wendy's can I take your order please!"

 

[GogglesPisano]

"If you could find a 707 you could start an airline."

"We thought of that, but none of us has a pilot's license."

"Well, With the fringe benefits you girls offer, I know plenty of pilots who'll sign up to fly for free."

 

[Prop2Jet]

Ciao Amico Come' Sta ?

 

[Launchpad]

Not to get all technical in your pissing contest, but it's a 993 not a boxster. Your right that a Boxster is a cheap Porsche, but that's not what in his Avatar....

Please continue with the bee otching-

Word-
<<<You must be one of those old salty captains that is bitter that you had sell your beach house and Porsche boxer (which by the way is a poor man's Porsche).>>>

 

[Bosley]

It had been a long since I had been at United's C Terminal at ORD until recently. The section of the terminal that at one time was a mecca of 727s and 737s going to all points of the country has been transformed into a whorehouse of scumbag regional operators.

A recent visit showed "Shuttle America" pilots in uniform sitting sideways, feet on the chair reading magazines. Many N**MJ CR7s line the end of the C Concourse. What a disgrace.

The G0Jet scum cowering and taking evasive action to avoid confrontation tops the list.

What a disgrace United's operation has become. This is not something that has taken place over the past 25 years, this has happened all within the past 25 months.

It matches UAL's mainline service! It's a disgrace. Hopefully they, along with their mascot 32LT10 will cease to exist!

 

[8HourPilot]

Tom,

I continue to wonder how you got your start. If you mentioned it previously in this thread, forgive my laziness. If not, tell us please. I ask you this question to find out how similiar/different our lives have been in this industry.

 

[Iron Man]

Tomcash
Bankruptcy, paycuts, 911, unions, etc. can do wonders to an airline. The DAL terminals in ATL were a wonder to walk through a few years ago, today I marvel at the deterioration and how trashy the place looks. Money, truly makes a difference. Cut a mans pay and his attitude changes. Regional pilots reflect their own state of affairs. But I would not trash either group, it's simply a reflection of the state of our industry. Still we have to fly safe and I for one have the greatest admiration for the pilot group as a whole and that includes the regional pilot.

 

[Tomct]

Well Tomcash, those of us at ASA are trying to do just THAT!!! Keep separate payscales, better QOL etc. We are going to stick to OUR guns, but we NEED everyone else to do the same!

 

[Hvy]

It matches UAL's mainline service! It's a disgrace. Hopefully they, along with their mascot 32LT10 will cease to exist!

Don't get your hopes up too much.

By the way...I wouldn't wish the same for you or your airline. Rivalry is one thing...wishing the demise of American jobs is another. I hope that you find peace with yourself.

 

[B727FA]

"Do not fly a 70 seat airplane for an already horrific 50 seat pay rate."

Oh, you must be talking about SkyWest.

 

[Prop2Jet]

Launchpad, Tomcash has a new pic for his profile! BOXSTER ok i got the spelling! Why would Porsche make such a car anyhow. They have nothing but negative comments from it. I hear they are remodeling their car line to bring back the "old" style bodies!!!! Finally!
Now I have to go and polish my Kia! C yahs

 

[SizzleChest]

Tomcash- Your mother and I were discussing this topic the other day while I was performing a$$ to mouth on her. She wasn't able to tell me about your background. I don't see it on here.... are you embarassed to be honest? You are a regional pilot sren't you? Was the internet selling tickets 15 years ago.... 10 years ago? How many CTOs are left these days? Were people using a trash bag as checked luggage back then since it is so cheap to get a ticket now and nobody cares? Why is it not the fault of the majors for signing contracts for service from regionals? Is it because they do not want the associated costs on the record books and can get out of Ch11 sooner? Isn't it easier to bark orders at a regional airline and let them worry about pleasing you (the major) and thus keep your costs down? Why do you think DL jumped at the chance to get the DoJet leases off their books with Mesa? So they can get out of CH11. It has become far too easy for a company to run for CH11 cover when the going gets tough. Can a union stop a company from filing CH11? What has happened at the majors with unions lately? When was the last time a bankruptcy judge sided with labor? $hit, just look at the crabby old lady judge that started with the DL CH11.... she sure didn't like pilots! Do you think shareholders of the now publicly traded airlines will allow a reduction of profit to them to pay more to the pilots? What happened to the employee owned airlines/aircraft of yore? Were they in control of their future? All over business there will always be someone to eat up the leftovers, it happens in nature, it happens in business. Will your regional step in and eat up the leftovers if your pilot groups says NO to any contract other than one that raises the bar to "your level"? I have my apps out at bigger airlines. I am a regional pilot. I have everything SWA, for example, wants (jet PIC, CK Airman, Instructor, 737 type) except for the genetalia and b00bs. Is it my fault they aren't hiring me? Is it my fault the industry is different now than what it was pre-9/11? As you can see it is more than just the "pilots" in this industry. Now on to your original comments. Putting your feet up doesn't matter at all. How many REALLY FAT mainline guys are there that can ONLY bid an Airbus due to the fact that it has a sidestick??? I have seen several. Those MAJOR airline furloughs that are at my company don't even wear the full uniform and put their feet up where they want... hell the dang airplane has FOOTRESTS in it! Looks like it is normal for a guy to put his feet up. Next, I am sure that you must have a butane powered travel iron since your shirt must never get wrinkled and you iron it during cruise. The G0-Jets guys are another story and it seems like they know it. People will choose what to do and like I said earlier, some1 will always come in for the scraps... in this case to work at G0-Jetz. United chooses who they want to do business with so "...The section of the terminal that at one time was a mecca of 727s and 737s going to all points of the country has been transformed into a whorehouse of scumbag regional operators." was UALs choice. Silly them for trying to stay afloat and not let the company die. I am sure they REALLY wanted UAL to be just a piece of framed paper on a wall like TWA.

P.S.- Hi Mrs. Tomcash!

 

[Bosley]

Don't get your hopes up too much.

By the way...I wouldn't wish the same for you or your airline. Rivalry is one thing...wishing the demise of American jobs is another. I hope that you find peace with yourself.

Have you met 32LT10 yet? Maybe you should acquaint yourself with some of his posts!

 

[flyingmoose1]

my 2cent...wtf? bottom line, we as guppy killers etc...took the next step in flying. whether we were instructors or part 135. obviously, most of us were hired at the time after 9/11 and had no choice but to come to the regionals. sh!!tt man if i knew how dirty this career was i would have been a inner city obgyn.
so, you master of the big jet..you have no clue wtf is going on in this regional industry. blame your parent airline. i guess you got your private and then poof...into the right seat of a 737. go f yourself. account this f face i got no choice at the present time, dont you know that we have little power to change the state of affairs.
hell man i am looking to go over seas and ex patriate myself from the lackluster b.s. over here. we will never get back to the career it used to be, the market dictates low cost and this will become a form of cheap conveyence.they got everyone by the balls boy...too many dumba$$es out ther wanting to be a pilot. call it ego or what ever, but remember when you were in that 150 and the guy next to you was flying the 172? bet you were envious.same crap applies, for every one of me there are 10 who would work for less.
i agree that we should be paid more, sh!!\t i am glad i did my stuff part 61, the poor fu## that went total aviation degree and or academy..jesus christ on a crutch, boy are they f'd. further more, do you realize that the competition for any mainline job is absolutely crazy and there is never going to be mass hiring in the future. f it, guess i will sit in the left seat of this big jet killer and be happy with 55k.
grammer police...please edit, obviously i need to stagger back to the bar.