United's Future

[Draginass]

I am away from my family about 450 hours per month, although I commute to my (very high cost of living) base. That's a necessity for a hugely growing number of pilots because of the tremendous bid turbulence of the massive furloughs going on now and the fact that even a seeminly good airline salary is relatively poor in some places like NYC metro area. If pilots were to move their families, it would be a huge cost to the companies, and subject their families to the high cost of resettlement in ultra high cost bases as well as general family disruption.

A regular 9-5 worker with an hour commute on each end of the day is gone less than HALF that.

northmountain hasn't a clue of what he's talking about . . . and what's with this "what WE do" stuff. It's obvious he's never flown heavy commercial aircraft for a living . . . otherwise he'd know better. Go back over to the student/flight instructor forum where you opinion might have some experience and wisdom to back it up.

No mind, at the rate things are going now, he's going to be flight instructing for a really long time.

 

[B737G]

Hmmm, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is responsible for a $385 Billion budget, is charged with protecting 280 Million lives and works around the clock - and he makes what - $180k a year????

I have two words for you 46Driver, Government Employee!

 

[46Driver]

Govt Employee - exactly. Thus a pilot's salary is determined by what the market will bear and the union can negotiate, i.e. capitalism - and the whole issue of "aircraft that cost 250 million with 400 lives on board" is irrelevant.

 

[Draginass]

When Carty, Bethune, Siegel, Tildon, Anderson, et al bring their REAL salaries (not the compensation packages that are spun for PR) down to that level, then I'd be willing to talk about it. Govt salaries have nothin to do with nothin.

As far as general officer perks and benefits, don't forget the ultra sweatheart jobs that they get from the defense beltway bandits after they retire.

 

[northmountain]

I won't stoop to insulting anyone on this board. To surplus and others: I understand that 40, 50, 60, or 80 hours of flight time does not equate to just 1-2 weeks of work per month. It was poorly stated in my last post.

If you are worth $250,000K in your $100+million aircraft then why are people complaining about Tilton's salary at $12 million when the buck stops with him and how he is managing $20 Billion in assets? Someone do a linear extrapolation of what Tilton should make considering he has 90,000 jobs at stake that could affect literally millions of families.

You can criticize me all you want, but the fact remains that it is unsustainable to try and maintain a company where just shy of 50 percent of its revenues are going to employee expense.

I understand you cannot compare the excpenses incurred by low cost carriers to those of a worldwide company like United. So I won't. But somehow/somewhere this company has to substantially lower its employee expense to remain viable. Not sure how you're gonna do that without subsidizing the company, working you harder or paying you less....or working you harder AND paying you less.

What I have stated is factual information. It in no way denigrates what any hard working man or woman does at United. And instead of pointing fingers at management or the union, (huge) change has to occur at this company.

 

[CatYaaak]

When Carty, Bethune, Siegel, Tildon, Anderson, et al bring their REAL salaries (not the compensation packages that are spun for PR) down to that level, then I'd be willing to talk about it. ...

Why stop there? Perhaps CEOs should make what an mx tech makes before you would talk about it, since w/o mx you aren't going anywhere, except maybe straight down. Or better yet, what an F/A makes...or perhaps a baggage handler, or maybe a CSR. He11, just make 'em work for free. I mean, any airline is just a lucrative jobs program for us pilots, right?

Of course, running a company while answering to labor demands and those pesky owner-shareholders is easy as pie..probably not much more than a 15 or 16-day a month job I'd say. I'm sure it's nothing like having to be the kind of rocket scientist/MBA it takes to fly an MD-80 from Dallas to St. Louis. Everyone knows, or should know, that airlines were invented to serve as a lucrative jobs program for pilots, right?

Hey, I've got an idea. Since running an airline should be a snap, whey don't we PILOTS get together and start our own airline? After all, we all know it's the blatant stupidity, unfairness, and ineptitude exhibited by the current crop of Executive/managers that lie behind this industry's travails. What they do is so easy, and what we do is SO hard, that with barely trying I just know we'd be successful. We could probably just volunteer taking turns managing everything in our spare time, or at least call in orders to the troops while we're out on our boats. We'll even give it cute name like Kiwi or something.

Of course we will have FAIR pay for all pilots (like a million $$ per year or something) and will ensure liveable wages at our St. Moritz and Monaco crew bases. Extreme, unendurable hardships like commuting will never be necessary, since with pilots running the show, I'm sure we'll figure out some way to park an airplane on everyone's front doorstep and still make it work.

What the naysayers of this plan don't realize is that those whachamacallits...the ummmm.. "passengers"?...will literally flock to our airline once they hear how benevolent and labor-friendly we are, and realize we have freed ourselves from the shackles of useless, greedy management that does nothing but keep us down here in the salt mines. Instead of scrambled-eggs on our uniform-hat visors, a halo would be much more approriate.


If only this had been tried before! It's all so clear to me now. It's obvious that the current crop of obviously overpaid CEOs are lazy, greedy, and evil. WE, however, are hard working, altruistic, and good....and also EXPERTS at how to run an airline because we fly the planes. After all, we fly the airplanes, and that makes us experts at everything.

 

[Ty Webb]

Every Village has an Idiot, and obviously, CatYaak is ours. Congratulations, CatYaak, you will alway have a job and a title here, even if it comes with no pay.

 

[100LL... Again!]

northmountain-

The leftists and dreamers of this world will continue to benefit from the blood and guts spilled by those who feel morally obligated to defend freedom. Incidentally, without the slightest gratitude.




Maybe this is more your style:
Key of G

Kumbaya Lord. Kumbaya. Kumbaya, oh-oh-oh-oh-oh.
Kumbaya Lord. Kumbaya. Kumbaya.
Somebody needs you Lord Kumbaya. Kumbaya, oh-oh-oh-oh-oh.
Somebody needs you Lord Kumbaya. Kumbaya.
Somebody’s praying Lord Kumbaya. Kumbaya, oh-oh-oh-oh-oh.
Somebody’s praying Lord Kumbaya. Kumbaya.
Oh-oh-oh-oh. Oh, Lord. Oh, Lord.
Oh, Lord Kumbaya.
Oh, Lord. Lord Kumbaya.

 

[dispatchguy]

Hey, I've got an idea. Since running an airline should be a snap, whey don't we PILOTS get together and start our own airline?

Wasnt that done at least once - the one I'm thinking of was Kiwi Airlines out of EWR...

 

[CatYaaak]

Every Village has an Idiot, and obviously, CatYaak is ours. Congratulations, CatYaak, you will alway have a job and a title here, even if it comes with no pay.

Why, thank you Ty Webb. I'm eternally grateful knowing that I can continue to electronically associate with so many all-knowing armchair CEOs. Now, if only the real airline CEOs would formulate business plans based on the penetrating ideas one can find in these message board threads, industry recovery would no doubt be swift and sustained.

Everyone knows that airline CEOs are singular in that they should make the same (or even less) salary as the rank and file. Sure, it means that in this respect they would be unlike any other CEOs on the face of the entire planet, but c'mon, how DARE they make more than pilots? We..and what we do...are just so darned special it's suprising that little flowers don't pop up from our footprints as we stride by. And aren't we collectively doomed anyway if Draginass won't talk to them?

 

[Tim47SIP]

Surplus

I think President Bush, for whatever reason, does want to make war on Iraq. To date, he has not given this American sufficient reason to support that policy.

I dont think so, I think he is trying to scare the Sh$t out of Sadam. Unfortunately, he is scaring the SH$t out of alot of other people at the same time. I think his tactics might have merit.

 

[CatYaaak]

Re: Surplus

I dont think so, I think he is trying to scare the Sh$t out of Sadam. Unfortunately, he is scaring the SH$t out of alot of other people at the same time. I think his tactics might have merit.

I haven't commented on this up until now, but after watching the news for the last couple months, here's my $.02....

Change in the plan to make the world a better place. We immediately pack up our troops now serving in the Middle East, but instead of bringing them home, have them go hit the beaches at Normandy instead.

Since Spring is nearly upon us, they'd enjoy their stay in occupied Paris more than Bagdad anway.

 

[dogg]

I have to say, Well put yaak. The arrogance of 90% of airline pilots is amazing. I fly there fore I am so on and so forth. If all these cockpit superstars really had there act together,then they would have been calling for cost cutting in the late 90's when the real damage was being done. That was the hey day of reckless expansion and mega stock buy backs and worthless merger proposals. But instead it was all about "parity" and united plus 1 and fewer block hours and more time off for reserve pilots and bigger and better layover hotels, etc.... It was 3-4 years of mgmt and unions just plain plundering the bottom line of the biggest air carriers and not just in the US of A either. And now both sides point fingers at each other and wheedle on and on about 9-11 and war and asian flu and what ever blame of the week is being ginned up by usa today....... Well it is too late, the business has never seen a"drunk fest or the morning after blues" like this one and it is going to take years to repair the damage done. Period, end of story. And when it is over, the job will never be the same ever again..................So sell all the big houses and cars and boats and pull the kids out of private day school and send the wife to work and then put on your "blue shirt" and pick up your "black lunch box" and go back to work for the rest of your career, because that is all that is left...................talk about babble on, whoops, my bad...........

 

[TurboS7]

Back to the subject I think UAL will chug along. BTW I had 12 whole days off during Dec, Jan, and Feb. and I had to marry off a daughter on one of those. Mar hasn't been bad but I think that it will start to get real busy soon. Oh well, back to those 500 hour away from home months.

 

[A Passenger]

(deleted for content)

 

[ClassG]

How in the hell did this get back to the top of the forum? Waht did he delete?

PS. Anyone have any new ideas about where UniTED's headed?

 

[TurboS7]

Look at it this way, UAL is still here and this thread was started almost a year ago. Unless you want to be a flight instructor the rest of your life you want UAL to be around.

 

[blueridge71]

How many UAL pilots will want to start over at $15,000 per annum, cause the rest of the majors sure ain't hiring.

 

[blueridge71]

How many UAL pilots will want to start over at $15,000 per annum, cause the rest of the majors sure ain't hiring.

 

[enigma]

I just read the Airwise.com news headlines and they show that UAL is basically abandoning Miami as a base and giving up on Latin American routes out of Miami due to Americans dominance of the region.

Good luck to all of you at UAL.

regards,
enigma