skyking1976
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United vs. Frontier
- Thread starter skyking1976
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F9 Driver
Wear The Fox Hat
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With Arrogant Pr1cs in Mgt...
Do you think UAL has credibility left with anybody literate?
Can ALPA impeach these idiots (Tilton et.al.)?
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~26385~1621460,00.html
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_2246922,00. html
Let's see... Move 8 hardly used gates off of A... or displace all other tenants at DIA?
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!!!
Arrogant Pr!cs
Do you think UAL has credibility left with anybody literate?
Can ALPA impeach these idiots (Tilton et.al.)?
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~26385~1621460,00.html
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_2246922,00. html
Let's see... Move 8 hardly used gates off of A... or displace all other tenants at DIA?
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!!!
Arrogant Pr!cs
bobbysamd
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No longer the Friendly Skies
Denver members might remember how the outgoing mayor, Wellington Webb, tore up United's letter outlining its demands during one of his last news conferences this summer.
Check it out. Straight from the July 16, 2003 Denver Post:
Mayor Wellington Webb angrily dismissed a series of demands from United Airlines on Tuesday, ripping up a letter from Denver International Airport's dominant carrier to make his point.
In a terse letter from United's attorneys, the airline insisted that Denver build a $65 million commuter-jet concourse and settle at least $20 million in other claims.
Webb said the city won't respond to United's demands until the bankrupt airline agrees to honor the terms of its lease agreement with the airport. In bankruptcy, United must affirm or reject all of its airport leases. United's existing DIA lease has 22 years to run.
United and the city have been negotiating their agreement - which governs everything from the gates the airline controls to rates it pays for space and services - since shortly after the airline filed for bankruptcy in December. But the talks have slowed to a halt in recent weeks.
UNITED'S VIEW
Before it reaffirms or rejects its lease at Denver International Airport, United Airlines wants the airport to:
* Build a $65 million, 38-gate regional jet terminal off the east end of Concourse B.
* Reimburse the airline for as much as $20 million in costs related to DIA's failed automated baggage system. The city claims the system never met performance standards and it doesn't owe United the money.
* Allow United to reduce the rates and charges it pays for baggage-handling space it leases at the airport.
* Make repairs to United's huge aircraft maintenance hangar at DIA. The airline has stopped making payments on the debt that was used to build the hangar
Source: Denver officials
"United wants to stick us up for whatever they can get. They should be working with us," Webb said. "United's people didn't even have the courage to sign this letter."
It was even better on TV. Remember it, SkyKing? Yes, indeed, UAL is arrogant - at a time when it should have its hat in its hand. It acts more like it has something else in its hand.
Denver members might remember how the outgoing mayor, Wellington Webb, tore up United's letter outlining its demands during one of his last news conferences this summer.
Check it out. Straight from the July 16, 2003 Denver Post:
Mayor Wellington Webb angrily dismissed a series of demands from United Airlines on Tuesday, ripping up a letter from Denver International Airport's dominant carrier to make his point.
In a terse letter from United's attorneys, the airline insisted that Denver build a $65 million commuter-jet concourse and settle at least $20 million in other claims.
Webb said the city won't respond to United's demands until the bankrupt airline agrees to honor the terms of its lease agreement with the airport. In bankruptcy, United must affirm or reject all of its airport leases. United's existing DIA lease has 22 years to run.
United and the city have been negotiating their agreement - which governs everything from the gates the airline controls to rates it pays for space and services - since shortly after the airline filed for bankruptcy in December. But the talks have slowed to a halt in recent weeks.
UNITED'S VIEW
Before it reaffirms or rejects its lease at Denver International Airport, United Airlines wants the airport to:
* Build a $65 million, 38-gate regional jet terminal off the east end of Concourse B.
* Reimburse the airline for as much as $20 million in costs related to DIA's failed automated baggage system. The city claims the system never met performance standards and it doesn't owe United the money.
* Allow United to reduce the rates and charges it pays for baggage-handling space it leases at the airport.
* Make repairs to United's huge aircraft maintenance hangar at DIA. The airline has stopped making payments on the debt that was used to build the hangar
Source: Denver officials
"United wants to stick us up for whatever they can get. They should be working with us," Webb said. "United's people didn't even have the courage to sign this letter."
It was even better on TV. Remember it, SkyKing? Yes, indeed, UAL is arrogant - at a time when it should have its hat in its hand. It acts more like it has something else in its hand.
Last edited:
skyking1976
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skyking1976
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F9 Driver
Wear The Fox Hat
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Hey Beechnut,
The RJ gates on A serve only a fraction of the enplanements as F9's gates. This fact was brought out as Webb was leaving office and the politics were just starting to get thick. The East end of B serves most of the UAL commuter traffic.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_2164161,00.html
"Frontier leases 10 gates on A and often borrows another four. United has 43 gates on B and eight on A.
Frontier argues that United does not use the A gates enough to justify retaining them. To meet mandates of its DIA lease, United need only average three flights a day per gate for all its 51 mainline gates.
"They're just dragging their feet to keep their minimum utilization," Michael Meyers, a Frontier duty manager, said from atop Frontier's control tower Wednesday, pointing to United's A gates.
A United spokesman declined to comment.
Frontier says it operates an average of 9.6 daily flights per leased gate overall and United operates an average of 6.7. These figures include regional-jet operations.
DIA said it can't verify Frontier's data or accurately break out an airline's gate usage for different parts of the airport.
DIA said United Express carrier Air Wisconsin, which uses United's eight A gates, had 45 flights a day in June. That would mean 5.6 a day per gate, but Air Wisconsin also operated an unknown number of the flights from United gates on B, which would lower the average, DIA spokesman Chuck Cannon said.
Frontier, excluding Frontier JetExpress, averaged 83 flights a day in June. For its 10 leased gates, that's an 8.3 average. However, it launched an unknown number of flights from borrowed gates, Cannon said."
As far as name calling... I have nothing but empathy for the guys/gals flying the line or couch for UAL. I am directing my frustration toward UAL management and calling a spade a spade.
This BS and arrogance is what could force them into Chapter 7.
The RJ gates on A serve only a fraction of the enplanements as F9's gates. This fact was brought out as Webb was leaving office and the politics were just starting to get thick. The East end of B serves most of the UAL commuter traffic.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_2164161,00.html
"Frontier leases 10 gates on A and often borrows another four. United has 43 gates on B and eight on A.
Frontier argues that United does not use the A gates enough to justify retaining them. To meet mandates of its DIA lease, United need only average three flights a day per gate for all its 51 mainline gates.
"They're just dragging their feet to keep their minimum utilization," Michael Meyers, a Frontier duty manager, said from atop Frontier's control tower Wednesday, pointing to United's A gates.
A United spokesman declined to comment.
Frontier says it operates an average of 9.6 daily flights per leased gate overall and United operates an average of 6.7. These figures include regional-jet operations.
DIA said it can't verify Frontier's data or accurately break out an airline's gate usage for different parts of the airport.
DIA said United Express carrier Air Wisconsin, which uses United's eight A gates, had 45 flights a day in June. That would mean 5.6 a day per gate, but Air Wisconsin also operated an unknown number of the flights from United gates on B, which would lower the average, DIA spokesman Chuck Cannon said.
Frontier, excluding Frontier JetExpress, averaged 83 flights a day in June. For its 10 leased gates, that's an 8.3 average. However, it launched an unknown number of flights from borrowed gates, Cannon said."
As far as name calling... I have nothing but empathy for the guys/gals flying the line or couch for UAL. I am directing my frustration toward UAL management and calling a spade a spade.
This BS and arrogance is what could force them into Chapter 7.
DenverDude2002
Ramp Rat
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- May 17, 2003
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- 590
United Really uses these gates
This whole United vs Frontier thing is starting to remind me of the 2 hillbilly families in arkansas who hated each other and fought with each other for generations. I remember back in 2001 United was using those A gates havily for its canadian flights and I remember seeing Air BC and Air Canada using most of them. The last few times i've flown through dia though I see almost no activity over there. I still dont see the big deal with Frontier getting those gates since UAL always has extras on B they could use. Plus can someone confirm/deny a rumor I have heard that Continental owns all of the leases on A?
This whole United vs Frontier thing is starting to remind me of the 2 hillbilly families in arkansas who hated each other and fought with each other for generations. I remember back in 2001 United was using those A gates havily for its canadian flights and I remember seeing Air BC and Air Canada using most of them. The last few times i've flown through dia though I see almost no activity over there. I still dont see the big deal with Frontier getting those gates since UAL always has extras on B they could use. Plus can someone confirm/deny a rumor I have heard that Continental owns all of the leases on A?
Cardinal
Of The Kremlin
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- Nov 25, 2001
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- 2,308
Re: United Really uses these gates
The same legacy that brought you the passenger bridge to the A concourse - which was a good idea, if you ask me.
Anyway, this is what makes me wonder. United's schedule has been scaled back at least 20% since Septmber 11th, correct? That would entail less flights, not just smaller aircraft - the massive furloughs can attest to that. So how is it not possible to shed 8 gates while keeping 43, thus reducing your rental costs and saving your passengers the walk and the train ride?
On the other hand, I wonder if Frontier has considered / would be able to execute a rolling hub like like American's ORD operation?
DenverDude2002 said:
The same legacy that brought you the passenger bridge to the A concourse - which was a good idea, if you ask me.
Anyway, this is what makes me wonder. United's schedule has been scaled back at least 20% since Septmber 11th, correct? That would entail less flights, not just smaller aircraft - the massive furloughs can attest to that. So how is it not possible to shed 8 gates while keeping 43, thus reducing your rental costs and saving your passengers the walk and the train ride?
On the other hand, I wonder if Frontier has considered / would be able to execute a rolling hub like like American's ORD operation?
rightrudder
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2002
- Posts
- 505
The reason UAL does not want F9 to use the gates is to reign in F9's expansion. With 8 additional gates, that could be 75 more flights a day in direct competition with UAL. That's what this is all about.
By the way, I am AWAC at DEN, and I can attest that we use each gate at A at least 3 times a day.
By the way, I am AWAC at DEN, and I can attest that we use each gate at A at least 3 times a day.
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