United Question

[Old School 737]

I was wondering if the phase out of the 737's has started and when they are predicting the final one to go?

 

[Chairman]

Yes, end of 2009

 

[GuppyPuppy]

How sad to see a once great airline diminish into what it has become.

The 737 is a great airplane. Fun to fly. It will be missed. My last trip on that plane was SAT-DEN back in Jan. 2003. Then a swift kick in the rear end by UA management.

Good luck to all those looking for employment.

GP
Former United Guppy Driver

 

[Fubijaakr]

Or as my buddy, one of the BCPs called it:

The incredible shrinking airline.

 

[IADBLRJ41]

Any Bets when AS#hole tilton will merge UA?

 

[contrail67]

This fall after STAR alliance is done according to most financial folks.

 

[whatitdoing?]

This fall after STAR alliance is done according to most financial folks.

Really, what finance people? Keep dreaming my friend.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Frankly, I'm afraid UAL isn't going to see Xmas 2009.

 

[contrail67]

Been the rumor for about 8 years now.

 

[eaglesview]

Frankly, I'm afraid UAL isn't going to see Xmas 2009.

Give me a break. Some moron posts this every year about this time. Try to be a little more original

 

[maxblast72]

Give me a break. Some moron posts this every year about this time. Try to be a little more original

Unfortunately 2009 RASM will be down well over 10%. A 2 to 3 month spike in Jet A prices to over $3/gallon due to an acitve hurricane season combined with a frozen credit market and an extremely pissed off work force may be too much for United to overcome.

Either someone big goes down in 2009 or we will see some more 10% across the board capacity reductions after Labor Day. Delta already announced theirs a few weeks ago.

 

[skywdriver]

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I don't see United going away any time soon, but I don't see a merger in the next few years either. When I try to put myself in the heads of the CAL management (scary place to be), I think to myself what would I do, and why have I done what I have already done. Lets see,
1. Furlough 147 guys and hold them hostage - that makes no sense because as a stand alone carrier, it seems almost impossible that they could keep us out until the next contract.
2. Underfund the pensions, talk about having no contractual responsibility to offer a lump sum - i guess that makes some sense, try to scare some more expensive guys into taking early retirement like they should have done when there was an incentive. Getting warmer
3. Join the Star Alliance and evaluate the benefits of the antitrust immunity with UAL and Lufthansa over the next couple of years. If the benefits allow for competition against the new Delta, great - no headaches of a merger, no costs associated with putting an apple and an orange together, and no pissed off labor unions who will cost me tons of money by making it a headache and a half to join together. If the benefits are not realized, then merge the companies out of desparation to compete - and have access to once again functioning and open capital markets to make that happen.

The guys upstairs with nice suits, big bank accounts, and nice cars turned down the chance at a merger with an administration that would have certainly approved it, and at a time when there was still somewhat reasonable access to the capital that would fund that deal. I don't know why they turned it down, we can all speculate, and that is all it will ever be. Why would they turn around now and try to push a deal through? That would be totally foolish, and dumber things have been done. However, despite many smaller decisions that I don't agree with, I think our management team has been pretty good at the bigger picture items - 757 to smaller European destinations, fuel efficiency, blah blah. I am not too happy that they placed me on the street, but I think most would agree that they have (at least from a business perspective) run a pretty good ship the past few years. Thats my 2 cents, and I am starting to count the cents in my bank account, those unemployment checks just aren't funding my whiskey habits like they should!

 

[SoCentralRain]

Yes, end of 2009

According to planners, all 737's will be retired by Nov. 1 at the latest. Talk now is possibly moving that date up. Blows.

SCR

 

[g-code]

Unfortunately 2009 RASM will be down well over 10%. A 2 to 3 month spike in Jet A prices to over $3/gallon due to an acitve hurricane season combined with a frozen credit market and an extremely pissed off work force may be too much for United to overcome.

Either someone big goes down in 2009 or we will see some more 10% across the board capacity reductions after Labor Day. Delta already announced theirs a few weeks ago.

UA management was actually smart in dumping the 737 fleet. They did it before everyone else and reduces their capacity by 11ish%. This move also dumps another fleet type with will help efficiency.

Now is not the time to expand in the airline industry unless you like torching your cash reserves.

 

[contrail67]

Unfortunately 2009 RASM will be down well over 10%. A 2 to 3 month spike in Jet A prices to over $3/gallon due to an acitve hurricane season combined with a frozen credit market and an extremely pissed off work force may be too much for United to overcome.

Either someone big goes down in 2009 or we will see some more 10% across the board capacity reductions after Labor Day. Delta already announced theirs a few weeks ago.

And last summer United announced a very large capacity reduction program...too much, according to many people...and now other airlines are having to cut more because of the enviroment we are in. Somehow United saw this ahead of time. I agree ,others will have to cut more.

 

[contrail67]

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I don't see United going away any time soon, but I don't see a merger in the next few years either. When I try to put myself in the heads of the CAL management (scary place to be), I think to myself what would I do, and why have I done what I have already done. Lets see,
1. Furlough 147 guys and hold them hostage - that makes no sense because as a stand alone carrier, it seems almost impossible that they could keep us out until the next contract.
2. Underfund the pensions, talk about having no contractual responsibility to offer a lump sum - i guess that makes some sense, try to scare some more expensive guys into taking early retirement like they should have done when there was an incentive. Getting warmer
3. Join the Star Alliance and evaluate the benefits of the antitrust immunity with UAL and Lufthansa over the next couple of years. If the benefits allow for competition against the new Delta, great - no headaches of a merger, no costs associated with putting an apple and an orange together, and no pissed off labor unions who will cost me tons of money by making it a headache and a half to join together. If the benefits are not realized, then merge the companies out of desparation to compete - and have access to once again functioning and open capital markets to make that happen.

The guys upstairs with nice suits, big bank accounts, and nice cars turned down the chance at a merger with an administration that would have certainly approved it, and at a time when there was still somewhat reasonable access to the capital that would fund that deal. I don't know why they turned it down, we can all speculate, and that is all it will ever be. Why would they turn around now and try to push a deal through? That would be totally foolish, and dumber things have been done. However, despite many smaller decisions that I don't agree with, I think our management team has been pretty good at the bigger picture items - 757 to smaller European destinations, fuel efficiency, blah blah. I am not too happy that they placed me on the street, but I think most would agree that they have (at least from a business perspective) run a pretty good ship the past few years. Thats my 2 cents, and I am starting to count the cents in my bank account, those unemployment checks just aren't funding my whiskey habits like they should!

They would have been too big if they did not cut....bigger than Delta..and now they will be right at the same size if it happens. Just my 2 cents. I gave up whiskey...back to the beer.

 

[skywdriver]

Good point, but I still don't see it happening in the next two years. I think they will see how the alliance goes. Why pain yourself with a merger, if they can benefit from the alliance? I have great friends at United, and I hate talking bad about the company (of course none of my buddies had anything to do with the piss poor management), however I really think it would be business suicide to merge within the near future. UAL has the route structure to be the airline their employees deserve and the airline they should be. But, for some reason, their management team just can't get all those parts oiled and running. A combined contract would be interesting though, because there is no way in hell CAL is giving in on 70 seat airplanes in a joint contract, and CAL management knows that.

 

[skywdriver]

Oh yeah, by the way, if you are buying beers, then I am buying whiskeys, and we will compromise at least on the drinking part!