United Express: What now for Aspen?

[F/O]

With the AWAC 146s soon to be out of the picture, what will United use for Aspen? It's pretty unbelievable that they would settle only for small turboprops for this market.

I smell Q400s for one of the remaining UAX carriers really soon...

 

[amcnd]

Or a CRJ-700LR (a CRJ-700 with the 900 engines!!)

 

[WhiteCloud]

Actually a much better deal to Aspen from DEN is with Hertz, Avis or Enterprise.

 

[Dodge]

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. Looks like NWA/XJ will have a corner on the market for the lucrative fur coat and complete jerk kids flights.

 

[sewerpiper]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF United!!!!!!!!! They deserve to lose this market, they are going down in a ball of flames and now it will be fun to watch. Thats my take. Too bad for the pilot group though.

 

[crashpad]

I heard Horizon may be looking into it as we speak.

 

[F/O]

Actually a much better deal to Aspen from DEN is with Hertz, Avis or Enterprise.

Maybe...but not from LAX.

 

[F/O]

I heard Horizon may be looking into it as we speak.

Nice...and funnel all of those folks right into Frontier. UAL might have really shot themselves in the foot here....again.

 

[Beechnut]

Good. I look foreword to reading about the demise of United.



FU Forever!



S.

 

[HMR]

Can a CRJ get off the runway at KASE? Doesn't seem like you'd be able to carry much pax/fuel. How about meeting the approach climb req'ts?

Can the Q400 do it?

How do you 121 guys deal with the 460'/nm climb req't on the Lindz 4 (nevermind the Aspen 2)?

Just curious.

 

[Dodge]

Hertz may not be so good from MSP and MEM, either. Besides, most of our pax originated on the East Coast. Long drive from Westchester Co. to ASE. As far as the turboprops......yeah, ASE pax LOVE turboprops.

 

[Jack Schitt]

How do you 121 guys deal with the 460'/nm climb req't on the Lindz 4 (nevermind the Aspen 2)?

Just curious.

Simple. AWAC doesn't fly the Lindz 4. They developed their own FAA approved approach and departure procedures.

 

[pilot1704]

It is all going to be private flying!

They are planning to make it all private flying in Aspen, no airlines!!!!

 

[HMR]

Simple. AWAC doesn't fly the Lindz 4. They developed their own FAA approved approach and departure procedures.

Thanks. Does anyone have a copy of those procedures they could share? I'd like to take a look at the AWAC departure and see how it compares to our home-made OEI emergency departure procedure.

I forgot about the "AWAC" approach. I've flown it in the sim.

Forgive my ignorance of 121 ops. I fly a little corporate jet.

 

[dispatchguy]

Actually, I was just reading a report issued by the Aspen Airport Authority, that, theoretically, the CRJ700 COULD use ASE.

Off of R33, at 20C, your max weight is around 64.7
Off of R33, at 10C, your max weight is around 67.1
Off of R33, at 00C, your max weight is around 68.4

www.aspenairport.com/master_plan/ 03%20Capacity%20Analysis%20and%20Facility%20Requirements.pdf

 

[FL280]

Thanks. Does anyone have a copy of those procedures they could share? I'd like to take a look at the AWAC departure and see how it compares to our home-made OEI emergency departure procedure.

I forgot about the "AWAC" approach. I've flown it in the sim.

Forgive my ignorance of 121 ops. I fly a little corporate jet.

How could you "fly it" in the sim. The approches in ASE that AWAC owns are PRIVATE, that means only published for AWAC, because they spent millons developing them and they wont be in your data base.

 

[Dodge]

Exactly. Mesaba has a LOC DME approach for RWY15. The Jepp plate says Mesaba Airlines right at the top of it.

 

[WhiteCloud]

How could you "fly it" in the sim. The approches in ASE that AWAC owns are PRIVATE, that means only published for AWAC, because they spent millons developing them and they wont be in your data base.

AWAC also does not want to be liable if you try to use the approach in real life so that's why they are only disseminated to the pilot group.

 

[jrod]

Actually, I was just reading a report issued by the Aspen Airport Authority, that, theoretically, the CRJ700 COULD use ASE.

Off of R33, at 20C, your max weight is around 64.7
Off of R33, at 10C, your max weight is around 67.1
Off of R33, at 00C, your max weight is around 68.4

www.aspenairport.com/master_plan/ 03%20Capacity%20Analysis%20and%20Facility%20Requirements.pdf

In the end, I don't think the FAA will allow 700's into ASE. The problem is the missed approach with an engine out. You have to be able to maintain a 30 degree bank turn at less than 130 knots to stay inside the required turn radius. The ref speed for a 700 is higher than that, isn't it?

 

[dispatchguy]

I recall that limitation on AWIs charts when I dispatched there a few years. However, that limitation only applies to approaches into ASE using AWIs overhead visual approach, and not to the basic TERPS-drawn VOR approach off of the DBL VOR...

Looking at a CRJ7 performance file I have, the Vref45 speed exceeds 130 KIAS at a landing weight of 61500, without any bank angle...

 

[HMR]

How could you "fly it" in the sim. The approches in ASE that AWAC owns are PRIVATE, that means only published for AWAC, because they spent millons developing them and they wont be in your data base.

Thanks for pointing that out. An instructor at FSI had the data.

We wouldn't attemp it for real unless it was published and legal for us to use.

 

[crashpad]

Take the clue fellas'...you'll have a critter on your tail if you're flying to Aspen.

 

[HMR]

AWAC also does not want to be liable if you try to use the approach in real life so that's why they are only disseminated to the pilot group.

That's a good policy. Fortunately somebody in the pilot group was willing to share (thank you).

We were only interested in the departure. We've been revamping our KASE emergency ops and were curious what some of the 121 procedures looked like. Sorry I didn't know the secret handshake.