United Airlines' First Choice: Continental

[IAHERJ]

That's fine... All airplanes on your property at the time of the merger can be fenced off. I can tell you right now that no arbitrator is going to fence off aircraft that were delivered after the merger takes place. Only existing aircraft will be kept fenced for any real length of time.

All your two year CA seats will be protected on the 737 and we'll probably have some sort of protection with our widebodys.

If you think that your "senior 9 month" FO is going to be slotted in above a 9-10 year UAL FO your crazy!

Stillflyn

Okay, our "senior 9 month fo's", who are around 98% in the company should be about 98% in a combined company. Your fo's who are at 98% should stay around 98% as well. Look, I don't see furloughs as a result of this possible merger anyway so we can all stop fighting over who is getting layed off. We should be fighting for a combined contract that pays well enough that we aren't fighting over widebody seats and commuting to each other's bases to begin with to fly them. Fences for a few years make sense as we ease into this deal but long term I think these things divide a pilot group. Any UAL pilot should be able(down the road) to have the chance to fly the 787's we are going to get as a combined airline just as much as current CAL pilots should have the opportunity to bid into a West Coast base of fly the 747 one day. Anything less is devisive and counterproductive to the overall cause.

IAHERJ
IAH B757/767

 

[General Lee]

You are once again, wrong. Carty is on record stating that the purchase of TWA will allow AA to off load some of it's ORD traffic to STL.

STL is 225 miles from ORD.

MSP is 290 mies from ORD.

History has shown that this will not stop AA from merging. Having a hub so close to ORD is not an issue for AA

Nah, you are wrong. The reason for STL was to help connect East West passengers in the case that ORD and DFW had bad wx. There is no need to have 3 hubs next to each other, in a straight line path. Nah, you are wrong, but your knowledge of the mileage is impressive....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Andy]

The biggest stumbling block (after NWA) would be the 747's. UAL/ALPA needs to protect the career projections of their pilots. I could eaisly see something like you refer to but with fences on the 747.

Why would the 747s be fenced? The 777 pay rate is the same as the 747 - and you can bet that an arbitrator is going to view them as the same.
Your comment has now ignited a mini food fight between CAL and UAL posters on this board. VERY counterproductive.

 

[Andy]

I'll tell you what. UA can keep their 747s in any merger. However, no UA can ever fly one of CAL's future 787s. Deal?

I'm willing to bet the 787s will be around a lot longer than those 747s.

Stop. The guy that posted that's not CAL or UAL. For pay purposes, there's no difference between the 747 or 777. I haven't looked at seniority for each fleet, but I suspect that it's similar enough to consider them the 'same,' just as the 757 is the 'same' as the 767.

Please don't pour gas on the fire by feeding on this stuff. We're seeing this happen with DAL and NWA. I saw it happen with UAL and USAirways.
The result is going to be long term animosity between the two pilot groups, whether we merge or not. And the likelihood of any of this fencing certain aircraft speculation coming to fruition is very small.

 

[Andy]

That's fine... All airplanes on your property at the time of the merger can be fenced off. I can tell you right now that no arbitrator is going to fence off aircraft that were delivered after the merger takes place. Only existing aircraft will be kept fenced for any real length of time.

All your two year CA seats will be protected on the 737 and we'll probably have some sort of protection with our widebodys.

If you think that your "senior 9 month" FO is going to be slotted in above a 9-10 year UAL FO your crazy!

Stillflyn

To repeat:
Please don't pour gas on the fire by feeding on this stuff. We're seeing this happen with DAL and NWA. I saw it happen with UAL and USAirways.
The result is going to be long term animosity between the two pilot groups, whether we merge or not. And the likelihood of any of this fencing certain aircraft speculation coming to fruition is very small.

 

[Uniform Shop]

That's fine... All airplanes on your property at the time of the merger can be fenced off. I can tell you right now that no arbitrator is going to fence off aircraft that were delivered after the merger takes place. Only existing aircraft will be kept fenced for any real length of time.

All your two year CA seats will be protected on the 737 and we'll probably have some sort of protection with our widebodys.

If you think that your "senior 9 month" FO is going to be slotted in above a 9-10 year UAL FO your crazy!

Stillflyn

How about a 2 1/2 year FO? :beer:

 

[Andy]

Okay, our "senior 9 month fo's", who are around 98% in the company should be about 98% in a combined company. Your fo's who are at 98% should stay around 98% as well. Look, I don't see furloughs as a result of this possible merger anyway so we can all stop fighting over who is getting layed off. We should be fighting for a combined contract that pays well enough that we aren't fighting over widebody seats and commuting to each other's bases to begin with to fly them. Fences for a few years make sense as we ease into this deal but long term I think these things divide a pilot group. Any UAL pilot should be able(down the road) to have the chance to fly the 787's we are going to get as a combined airline just as much as current CAL pilots should have the opportunity to bid into a West Coast base of fly the 747 one day. Anything less is devisive and counterproductive to the overall cause.

IAHERJ
IAH B757/767

Thanks; my sentiments also.

Comments on webboards can escalate to isolated jumpseat denials when it gets out of hand; silly, but it's happened in the past. I'm waiting for the day that we read a NWA/DAL jumpseat denial thread. I don't want to read a CAL/UAL jumpseat denial thread.

Each employee group has hot button items; it would be nice if we could refrain from pushing them.

 

[catIIIc]

Amen Andy all this does is drive a wedge between two pilot groups that could be working together instead of against each other. If this does happed let your merger committee do the work and if not an arbitrator, that is the way it supposed to work. Just remember unless you are #1 on the list you will feel you were screwed.

 

[lookin4better]

The scope issue, or lack of would hopefully be fixed before these 2 link up.....no more RJ flying and quick upgrades at the expense of mainline pilot jobs

 

[G4G5]

Really? Are you sure about that? Everyone who I have talked to, and I was not at Delta at the time, says we overpaid thanks to a runup from AA. Ron Allen supposedly overpaid a lot for the routes and terminals. I think your figure is a lot low. Let's ask Tom Goodman, he was there I bet. $260 million is low. I heard it was over $1 billion.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You are correct, I was wrong. I wrote $260 million when in fact it was $620 mill in cash paid directly to the creditors.

Even at your $ one billion dollar estimates, DAL received more then fair compensation. Where would all of their current international expansion be without the Pan Am purchase? Or 45 aircraft or the Shuttle?

It was the deal that put DAL on the map.