Unions

[freightdoggie]

I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice on starting a union. Who to contact, things to consider during the process, etc.. etc...

Some changes are taking place at work, with no valid explanation, I feel a union is needed, has been for a long time.

 

[MINIME]

make sure you get a permit from your particular city.....
make sure you get an outside source to do your negotiating, this way your company cannot fire, intimidate your negotiator!!! SUPER IMPORTANT, trust me on this one!!!
make sure your representatives include everyone from the most senior to the most junior. DO NOT loose your goal of representing everyone or no one at all!
be involved but most definitely stay imformed, play your cards right, pick your fights carefully
Lastly, form your own union, don't go to these huge monopolies, sometimes they don't care about you or your peers....just your hard earned cash! sad but very true in some cases

 

[d328pilot]

I dont think you can just start a union. I am almost positive that there are rules and procedures to be followed. I would contact the Dept of Labor or the National Mediation Board for more info.

 

[sstearns2]

The NMB website is pretty good. www.nmb.gov

I assume your talking about an airline?

Scott

 

[pilotyip]

UAW

UAW is looking for members.

 

[uscpilot]

I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice on starting a union. Who to contact, things to consider during the process, etc.. etc...

Some changes are taking place at work, with no valid explanation, I feel a union is needed, has been for a long time.

Based on your profile you could be with airnet. If not, more power to you. However, if you are, you can count on a resounding NO from me. It has been tried and voted down. I already have taxes taken out, why would I want to give money people who are more intrested in selfpreservation than in improving my sitution.
If you are not with airnet then I apollogize for the rant.
usc

 

[freightdoggie]

Obviously you wont be affected by the new changes in pay, if your for leaving things the way they are. Lets say management decides to cut your pay by a third, or half in many other's cases, your just gonna sit around and say, hmm ok, thats nice.

A union narrowly missed the vote last time, I think this time it will pass. We need some structure, not just mgt. coming in and saying we are not gonna pay you for this and that, because we need to save money. Right now, there is no way to protest their actions.

 

[bobbysamd]

NLRB

Try contacting the federal National Labor Relations Board before you start organizing. The website has some excellent information. Union elections (and decertifications) are held under NLRB auspices.

Hope that helps a little more.

 

[uscpilot]

Obviously you wont be affected by the new changes in pay, if your for leaving things the way they are. Lets say management decides to cut your pay by a third, or half in many other's cases, your just gonna sit around and say, hmm ok, thats nice.

A union narrowly missed the vote last time, I think this time it will pass. We need some structure, not just mgt. coming in and saying we are not gonna pay you for this and that, because we need to save money. Right now, there is no way to protest their actions.

Look a union is not going to stop any of this from happening. If they are going to do what I heard it will screw all of you floaters. But I will have to sacrafice my income and recieve absolutly nothing except a membership card to a union if we try that route again. The base salary for the props is approx 26000, what will they gain??
Besides the company needs to do something, the future doesnt look to rosey.
I am all for keeping the floater positions the way that they are. It is a great way for someone to break into this industry and make a descent salary.
All that I have heard is through rumor mill. Until I have seen something official it is pointless to continue this argument.
usc

 

[bart]

from Freightdoggie: Right now, there is no way to protest their actions.

Why not try:

"Right now, I am not willing to quit, even though I do not like nor agree with how they are treating me. It is more important to try to force them to behave the way I want them to than to find a company that values it's employees."

The fact that people don't quit jobs like these when stuff like this is starting amazes me. There are plenty of jobs out there if you look hard enough. I guess one of the things that keeps employers doing this is the fact that people will tolerate about anything to keep flying, which leads to these situations.

Good luck with unionizing, hopefully you will get it done. Sounds like the company deserves it, and that you deserve what comes with it for staying in the job.

 

[uscpilot]

The fact that people don't quit jobs like these when stuff like this is starting amazes me. There are plenty of jobs out there if you look hard enough. I guess one of the things that keeps employers doing this is the fact that people will tolerate about anything to keep flying, which leads to these situations.

Good luck with unionizing, hopefully you will get it done. Sounds like the company deserves it, and that you deserve what comes with it for staying in the job.

That answer is way too simplistic. I am not advocating unionizing, but simply jumping ship is not a solution, not for me anyway. What are these plentiful jobs? I have been looking for the last two years. Sure I can go to a commuter, but I have bills to pay, and 19000 a year wont cut it.
You are also being presumptious about what "it" is. The only mention of "it" was about loosing 1/2 - 2/3 of someone's income. I am not saying that it is right, but when you look at the competition, where else are entery level 135 pilots (1200 hr) able to make 50 to 60 K a year?

I dont think that there is a right answer. What will a union accomplish? Their ultimate weapon is to go on strike. We would be out of a job before you were able to flightinfo.com to tell everyone about the strike. How long would it take to train one of the thousands of applicants waiting on a phone call from Craig?
usc

 

[bart]

I am sorry, you misunderstood me, I meant quit and find a job with the pay and work conditions you are looking for, that may be as a pilot and that may not. Unfortunately, there is an oversupply of pilots right now, and so those that put flying as their first priority above pay and work conditions might find themselves continuing to fly with less than ideal pay and working conditions.

Just don't make the mistake of believing that forcing the company to behave the way you want them to is your only option. You have many others, some of which will probably have much better long-term outcomes.

 

[uscpilot]

Bart,
You are preaching to the choir. However if I were to leave flying it would be difficult to near impossible to get back into it. Thats not to say that I could not do it, but we are getting by quite well now so why risk it to go to a job I would hate. It would be stupid for me to leave now as close as I am to Lear.
Most of us realize that we have little to no chance of changing the direction of the company. The best I can do is roll with the punches, make my self marketable, and leave as soon as a better job becomes availiable.
Few people go to Airnet with the intention of staying long term. I would guess that the average turnover is less than two years, obviously longer if thsy upgrade to a Lear. If there are any benifits to a union (that statement itself is highly debatable), they would be few and far between to us at Airnet with the high turnover and relatively low pay.
What power would we have? Strike?? HA!! The only ones with leverage are the Lear pilots. The piston pilots could be replaced in weeks, and could be filled in with charters with little cost to the company. We would shoot ourselves in the foot.
usc

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

Bart:

I hear that advice all the time. Out of curiousity--have you ever voted with your feet?

It's not as easy as I think you make it sound. I wholeheartedly agree that sometimes that is what has to be done--but I think you're looking at it a bit too simply.

Not that I think a union would be thw eay to go necessarily, but quitting isn't as easy as you make it sound. Actually, it's the finding a replacement job that can be the hard part.

I'm not trying to flame you, or anything like that--I'm just saying that it is a much more complicated issue than you make it out to be.

Dan

 

[bobbysamd]

A point to note

According to this page from the NLRB website, it is conceivable that the National Labor Relations Board may not be able to help you:

Workers Excluded from NLRB Coverage

The NLRA does not include coverage for all workers. The Act specifically excludes from its coverage individuals who are:

employed as agricultural laborers

employed in the domestic service of any person or family in a home

employed by a parent or spouse

employed as an independent contractor

employed as a supervisor

employed by an employer subject to the Railway Labor Act, such as railroads and airlines

employed by Federal, state, or local government

employed by any other person who is not an employer as defined in the NLRA

(emphasis added)

So, before you forge ahead, better determine if your company is subject to the Railway Labor Act. I suspect not, given what you've described.

Hope this helps a little more.