Union Resurgance

[PCL_128]

I think it matters. Who is to blame for having 5 children when you're making minimum wage?

Even a single man with no kids can't stay out of poverty on minimum wage. The "5 children" myth is nothing but a red herring.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Even a single man with no kids can't stay out of poverty on minimum wage. The "5 children" myth is nothing but a red herring.

You have a point about the single guy. But there are people who have 5 children on minimum wage.

 

[PCL_128]

You have a point about the single guy. But there are people who have 5 children on minimum wage.

Yes, there are. Obama supports eliminating the incentives for extra money in the welfare program for additional children. It provides an unintended incentive for people to actually have more kids to get more money. Increasing awareness of birth control rather than sticking to this ridiculous abstinence only program will also help.

 

[El Pobre]

Yes. I don't expect them to make enough money to have a new car and a fancy apartment, but they should make enough money to feed, clothe, and shelter their family. They should have health insurance to protect the health of their family. No one who works for a living should live in poverty.

I think that what you are trying to say is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

Let's see...where have I heard that before???? Oh yeah...under a communist system, every person shall produce to the best of one's ability in accordance with one's talent, and each person shall receive the fruits of this production in accordance with one's need, irrespective of what one has produced. In the Marxist view, such an arrangement will be made possible by the abundance of goods and services that a developed communist society will produce; the idea is that there will be enough to satisfy everyone's needs.

What you advocate is essentially what Marx and Lenin did. Aside from a terribly repressive political system, the economies of Communist nations have kept more people mired in poverty and dispair than we have in our nation...in fact, while people like you advocate more greater wealth distribution, Communist nations from China to Vietnam to even Cuba under Raul have realized the fallacy of Marxism and have opened up their markets to capitalism.

This is precisely why many people who aren't happy with Bush are very concerned about voting for the Barry Obama.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Even a single man with no kids can't stay out of poverty on minimum wage. The "5 children" myth is nothing but a red herring.

Minimum wage jobs aren't supposed to be careers...Most people CHOOSE to be poor and/or make poor life decisions.....

Rewarding bad behavior creates more bad behavior....A Nanny State isn't going to bring about more prosperity......

 

[800Dog]

I think that what you are trying to say is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

Let's see...where have I heard that before???? Oh yeah...under a communist system, every person shall produce to the best of one's ability in accordance with one's talent, and each person shall receive the fruits of this production in accordance with one's need, irrespective of what one has produced. In the Marxist view, such an arrangement will be made possible by the abundance of goods and services that a developed communist society will produce; the idea is that there will be enough to satisfy everyone's needs.

What you advocate is essentially what Marx and Lenin did. Aside from a terribly repressive political system, the economies of Communist nations have kept more people mired in poverty and dispair than we have in our nation...in fact, while people like you advocate more greater wealth distribution, Communist nations from China to Vietnam to even Cuba under Raul have realized the fallacy of Marxism and have opened up their markets to capitalism.

This is precisely why many people who aren't happy with Bush are very concerned about voting for the Barry Obama.

Excellent post!

 

[ReverseSensing]

What shameful ignorance and callousness displayed on this thread by folks who are (supposedly) currently employed in one of the most marginal industries in our economy. Everyone here who is denigrating the working poor in this country must have their Plan B's all worked out, because you are surely tempting fate.

Good luck to all my brethren who have it all figured out. You deserve to be disabused of your smugness, but I'll stop short of hoping that you are.

 

[waveflyer]

Why is it so hard to believe? Libs would have you believe that every minimum wage earner is supporting a family of 5. That is not the case. As I stated, it's very likely that the minimum wage earner is not the only income earner in the house.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm1186.cfm

You quote me the heritage foundation as a source for your anti-liberal inflated numbers? are you kidding? - next you'll quote Rush as a source . I'll concede that there are plenty of kids that have part time min-wage jobs. Which i'm sure is where those numbers come from: Daddy makes $90k- kid brings in his clothes money- and now all of a sudden the poor aren't quite as poor. Get me the numbers on those who are supporting their household on min-wage, and we'll talk... In the meantime- i'll give you a personal example:

my mother supported my family of 4 on min-wage in the mid 80's when my dad cut out-She was college educated in one of those degrees that isn't marketable w/o graduate work...Did she have options? Of course, but she also didn't have room to breath- every day was another gut check and i've never seen somebody deserve better-Something she didn't get until we grew up and were more self-supportive- but there were those 6 years of hell-and another 5 of being real broke- and that's not exaggerating- you obviously have never seen someone working harder than is healthy- and nothing but fear that she's going to be on the streets w/ 3 kids. None of your fears of a furlough can match that. It breaks my heart to remember it- it also makes me proud.
You speak from the arrogance of never having been hungry -It's unfathamable to you how it could happen-(and no, spending your dorm food money on beer doesn't count (!) that's just good solid priorities )

You talk like someone who, b/c he's alive and noone gets out of life easy, that is convinced your life has been 'hard'... you've deserved all your successes.... you've earned them... c'mon... get over yourself. It's funny how i feel i appreciate the opportunities this country provides more than people who had 10 times the opportunities, and half the barriers that i did. Yet i'm nothing but grateful and humble. I recognize that it gets worse than my life by a long shot. How can you not? Yet you don't...it's puzzling. How about you practicing some of that humility the church teaches, instead of the hypocrisy?
There's another world-- one where the environment is not quite as conducive to success as you assume it is. Do i feel sorry for me or anyone who grows up broke? No. But i'll tell you that til i'm blue in the face that this is not a EQUAL OPPORTUNITY country- b/c the education is not equal across income levels- the environment to learn is not equal- You got to play sports- i got to hold down a job to help w/ the rent... at age 10. You guys complain about a furlough. I'm lucky that i was first generation and only temporarily broke- so i had positive people around me- but i knew so many good good people who just didn't know how to be successful-- no faith that their work would pay off....and every day a self-fulfilled prophecy. So what do we do-- just let it keep devolving or help? Keep fighting poverty... there's no reason everyone can't have enough. NONE. And this is where it gets ironic- b/c i believe in personal responsibility more than you do.

But part of that personal responsiblity is the deep need to participate in government and hold accountable both corporations and government when they stack the deck against the working middle class and poor. (let that sink in... )

To that end, you still haven't answered my legitimate concern of the taxpaying public subsidizing health care for WAL-MART. Corporations accomplish a lot- but to think they don't need oversight to stop them from the corruptions of power is ridiculous. Answer that w/o your obvious bias and we'll talk again... until then-- you have simply lived in another world-- and your opinion is not that important to me.

me-- i don't forget where i came from- and i won't forget the problems the working poor have to deal with.

 

[BigMeat]

Vote Obama 08

 

[PCL_128]

I think that what you are trying to say is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

No, that's not what I'm saying, and I think you know that very well.

 

[PCL_128]

You quote me the heritage foundation as a source for your anti-liberal inflated numbers? are you kidding? - next you'll quote Rush as a source . I'll concede that there are plenty of kids that have part time min-wage jobs. Which i'm sure is where those numbers come from: Daddy makes $90k- kid brings in his clothes money- and now all of a sudden the poor aren't quite as poor. Get me the numbers on those who are supporting their household on min-wage, and we'll talk... In the meantime- i'll give you a personal example:

my mother supported my family of 4 on min-wage in the mid 80's when my dad cut out-She was college educated in one of those degrees that isn't marketable w/o graduate work...Did she have options? Of course, but she also didn't have room to breath- every day was another gut check and i've never seen somebody deserve better-Something she didn't get until we grew up and were more self-supportive- but there were those 6 years of hell-and another 5 of being real broke- and that's not exaggerating- you obviously have never seen someone working harder than is healthy- and nothing but fear that she's going to be on the streets w/ 3 kids. None of your fears of a furlough can match that. It breaks my heart to remember it- it also makes me proud.
You speak from the arrogance of never having been hungry -It's unfathamable to you how it could happen-(and no, spending your dorm food money on beer doesn't count (!) that's just good solid priorities )

You talk like someone who, b/c he's alive and noone gets out of life easy, that is convinced your life has been 'hard'... you've deserved all your successes.... you've earned them... c'mon... get over yourself. It's funny how i feel i appreciate the opportunities this country provides more than people who had 10 times the opportunities, and half the barriers that i did. Yet i'm nothing but grateful and humble. I recognize that it gets worse than my life by a long shot. How can you not? Yet you don't...it's puzzling. How about you practicing some of that humility the church teaches, instead of the hypocrisy?
There's another world-- one where the environment is not quite as conducive to success as you assume it is. Do i feel sorry for me or anyone who grows up broke? No. But i'll tell you that til i'm blue in the face that this is not a EQUAL OPPORTUNITY country- b/c the education is not equal across income levels- the environment to learn is not equal- You got to play sports- i got to hold down a job to help w/ the rent... at age 10. You guys complain about a furlough. I'm lucky that i was first generation and only temporarily broke- so i had positive people around me- but i knew so many good good people who just didn't know how to be successful-- no faith that their work would pay off....and every day a self-fulfilled prophecy. So what do we do-- just let it keep devolving or help? Keep fighting poverty... there's no reason everyone can't have enough. NONE. And this is where it gets ironic- b/c i believe in personal responsibility more than you do.

But part of that personal responsiblity is the deep need to participate in government and hold accountable both corporations and government when they stack the deck against the working middle class and poor. (let that sink in... )

To that end, you still haven't answered my legitimate concern of the taxpaying public subsidizing health care for WAL-MART. Corporations accomplish a lot- but to think they don't need oversight to stop them from the corruptions of power is ridiculous. Answer that w/o your obvious bias and we'll talk again... until then-- you have simply lived in another world-- and your opinion is not that important to me.

me-- i don't forget where i came from- and i won't forget the problems the working poor have to deal with.

Damn good post.

 

[El Pobre]

No, that's not what I'm saying, and I think you know that very well.

Actually, go back and read your previous posts, and that's EXACTLY what you are saying!!!

Have a great day...Comrade.

 

[PCL_128]

Actually, go back and read your previous posts, and that's EXACTLY what you are saying!!!

Have a great day...Comrade.

Well, in that case, I guess you have a learning disability and have a real problem with reading comprehension. Either that or you don't have a clue what communism really is.

 

[El Pobre]

Yes. I don't expect them to make enough money to have a new car and a fancy apartment, but they should make enough money to feed, clothe, and shelter their family. They should have health insurance to protect the health of their family. No one who works for a living should live in poverty.

This is exactly what you are talking about...regardless of someone's ability to produce (ie taking a minimum wage job) they should have all of thier needs provided (feed, clothe, housing, health coverage, schooling etc) who pays for that??? Well if the government does, than it's you and I and that is the redistribution of wealth and providing all of the needs for those who for whatever reason can't produce a product of profit to pay for their own food/housing/clothing/healthcare etc...You are taking from those who are able to produce more to give to those who produce less to make everyone have the same standard of living.

Furthermore, what are you...in high school? Telling people with whom you disagree that they have learning disabilities and are illiterate...please. I actually feel sorry for you...you always see the glass as half empty and that's a terrible way to live life. Corporations are bad, the government is bad, George bush is bad (I might agree with you on that), Walmart is lousy, China sucks... geez...you must be fun to fly with.

You probably haven't travelled much around the world, but if and when you do, you'll discover what a great nation we have, despite all our faults, and that will make your rose colored glasses a bit clearer.

Cheers

 

[PCL_128]

This is exactly what you are talking about...regardless of someone's ability to produce (ie taking a minimum wage job) they should have all of thier needs provided (feed, clothe, housing, health coverage, schooling etc) who pays for that??? Well if the government does

I've never suggested that the government take care of it. I've said that the government should impose a national livable wage so that the companies are forced to provide it. That's not redistribution of wealth. That's simply forcing companies to act as good corporate citizens.

You probably haven't travelled much around the world, but if and when you do, you'll discover what a great nation we have, despite all our faults, and that will make your rose colored glasses a bit clearer.

Yes, we do live in a great nation. But it's not perfect, and we have a lot we can improve upon.