Union/Non-Union Merger

[StaySeated]

That Wilder quote was taken from one of their propaganda pieces.

Wilder is the IBT's hired gun, and they talk out of both sides of their mouth on a daily basis.

Wilder is telling the F9 flight attendants one thing, and telling the YX flight attendants something completely opposite, because it suits the needs of the IBT.

The previous post that stated Allegheny Mohawk applies was correct. Specifically 3 and 13.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

That Wilder quote was taken from one of their propaganda pieces.

Wilder is the IBT's hired gun, and they talk out of both sides of their mouth on a daily basis.

Wilder is telling the F9 flight attendants one thing, and telling the YX flight attendants something completely opposite, because it suits the needs of the IBT.

The previous post that stated Allegheny Mohawk applies was correct. Specifically 3 and 13.

I would sure like a definitive answer from legal counsel rather than conjecture here. Until a court has to decide who knows? Safest bet would be to have a union for this issue.

 

[StaySeated]

"LABOR INTEGRATION.—With respect to any covered transaction involving two or more covered air carriers that results in the combination of crafts or classes that are subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.), sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective provisions imposed by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger (as published at 59 C.A.B. 45) shall apply to the integration of covered employees of the covered air carriers; except that—(1) if the same collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at each of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent’s internal policies regarding integration, if any, will not be affected by and will supersede the requirements of this section; and
(2) the requirements of any collective bargaining agreement that may be applicable to the terms of integration involving covered employees of a covered air carrier shall not be affected by the requirements of this section as to the employees covered by that agreement, so long as those provisions allow for the protections afforded by sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk provisions."



It really is not that vauge at all. The first sentence says it all.

One interesting point. When RJET purchased YX from TPG, they reclassifed Midwest Air Group into an LLC. The LLC did not hold a certificate issued under chapter 411 of title 49, United States Code. Therfor the IBT is telling the YX flight attendants that the transaction was not "covered" according to the langauge in AM. Classic union busting at its finest.

Ironically, the YX pilots are participating in 3 and 13.

Even better, the IBT filed a SOC with the NMB, and failed. So one day the YX FA's are considered a single carrier, the next day they don't even qualify for representation. Gotta love the IBT.

 

[BigMotorToter]

"LABOR INTEGRATION.—With respect to any covered transaction involving two or more covered air carriers that results in the combination of crafts or classes that are subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.), sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective provisions imposed by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger (as published at 59 C.A.B. 45) shall apply to the integration of covered employees of the covered air carriers; except that—(1) if the same collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at each of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent’s internal policies regarding integration, if any, will not be affected by and will supersede the requirements of this section; and
(2) the requirements of any collective bargaining agreement that may be applicable to the terms of integration involving covered employees of a covered air carrier shall not be affected by the requirements of this section as to the employees covered by that agreement, so long as those provisions allow for the protections afforded by sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk provisions."



It really is not that vauge at all. The first sentence says it all.

One interesting point. When RJET purchased YX from TPG, they reclassifed Midwest Air Group into an LLC. The LLC did not hold a certificate issued under chapter 411 of title 49, United States Code. Therfor the IBT is telling the YX flight attendants that the transaction was not "covered" according to the langauge in AM. Classic union busting at its finest.

Ironically, the YX pilots are participating in 3 and 13.

Even better, the IBT filed a SOC with the NMB, and failed. So one day the YX FA's are considered a single carrier, the next day they don't even qualify for representation. Gotta love the IBT.

Red type face says it all. You have to read further in the document to find out what "coverd employees" are. Guess what, Jeblue pilots are not "covered" because they are considered "temporary employees" due to the 5 year contract. You have to be a "permanent employee" to be covered.

 

[Blue Dude]

Red type face says it all. You have to read further in the document to find out what "coverd employees" are. Guess what, Jeblue pilots are not "covered" because they are considered "temporary employees" due to the 5 year contract. You have to be a "permanent employee" to be covered.

That's not at all clear either. Pilots are not temporary hires. The contract renews itself automatically. The only option the company has for *not* renewing is for specific cause, meaning the pilot has been fired. "We find you inconvenient in a merger" is not a listed cause.

 

[radarlove]

Unless your contract has a successorship clause, you might be in a world of hurt if you get the chance to 're-interview' since the company that signed your pilot agreement has been dissolved.

This is one of those incontrovertable times where being on a union seniority list has only an upside without a downside. You simply don't have a seniority number without a negotiated contract.

Come to think of it, JBLU doesn't even publish an official seniority list at all, do they?

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Yeah I would say Jetblue pilots would be in legal battles for years. There is so much grey area with the inividual contracts, lack of official seniority list, 5 year renewal, etc.

 

[Blue Dude]

Unless your contract has a successorship clause, you might be in a world of hurt if you get the chance to 're-interview' since the company that signed your pilot agreement has been dissolved.

This is one of those incontrovertable times where being on a union seniority list has only an upside without a downside. You simply don't have a seniority number without a negotiated contract.

Come to think of it, JBLU doesn't even publish an official seniority list at all, do they?

You'll get no argument from me. We need to be covered by a CBA, or at least a successful vote, immediately.

However some of your concerns are unfounded. We didn't just fall off the turnip truck and most of these have been known issues for 10 years. There is an official seniority list. One of the sections of the common, unified-but-individual, contract covers seniority and how it applies. There's also a successorship section that's pretty decent. It could be used almost verbatim in a CBA with adequate protection.

What's completely untested is what happens when you have 2000 "individual" contractors bound in a quasi-collective structure (identical contracts, locked in seniority, etc.) being represented in a merger transaction. It's never happened before to my knowledge. I don't savor being a test case either. I'd be happier knowing that we'd have decades of precedent to fall back on.

 

[Dan Roman]

FWIW (They were both non union at the time) When CO bought PeopleExpress they stapled the PEX Captains below all CO Captains and everyone else on the bottom. A group of PEX pilots hired a lawyer and fought it. They were integrated much more fairly.

 

[Lear70]

I personally hope JB doesn't get bought by anyone... I like JB's product and culture.

If anything, I hope JB buys another carrier and retains management control. Not saying that I think it's perfect, but it's a lot better than some of the other carriers out there in terms of culture, management-employee relations, etc.

Good luck!