uni"TED" 200 planes

[FDJ2]

If 'TED is not designed to make a profit then how is UAL going to convince the ATSB to finance a losing operation whose only chance is to destroy the competition that has lead to lower fares that benefits the American people.

United is doing relatively great and is on track to exit bankruptcy without ATSB financing. United has met or exceeded all their DIP requirements and posted solid October numbers. Here's a glimpse of how well they are doing:



UAL Reports Strong October Results, Generates $25 Million Net Income, Excluding Reorganization Expenses

$60 Million Monthly Operating Income, Positive Cash Flow of $7 Million
Per Day

Meets DIP Covenant EBITDAR for Ninth Consecutive Month

Unit Revenue Improves 9% YOY

Reiterates Position on Pension Funding

CHICAGO, Nov. 20 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- UAL Corporation (OTC Bulletin Board: UALAQ), the holding company whose primary subsidiary is United Airlines, today filed its October Monthly Operating Report (MOR) with the United States Bankruptcy Court. The Company reported a net income for October of $25 million, excluding reorganization expenses of $149 million. The majority of reorganization expenses were non-cash items resulting from the rejection of aircraft as the company aligns its fleet to the market. Operating profit for the month was $60 million. This is an improvement of about $300 million compared to October one year ago. Positive cash flow during the month was $7 million per day, excluding a quarterly retroactive wage payment to International Association of Machinists members of $63 million. UAL met the requirements of its debtor-in-possession (DIP) financing for the ninth straight month.

"What these results point to is that United's restructuring has established a foundation for success -- it is back in the game, competing," said Glenn F. Tilton, chairman, president and chief executive officer. "We still have work to do, but United's steady progress shows that we are creating an airline that will be profitable and sustainable for the long term."

"Month after month, United continues to generate solid financial results," said Jake Brace, United's executive vice president and chief financial officer. "Cash flow remains strong, and we ended the month with a cash balance of $2.5 billion. UAL's systemwide passenger unit revenue was up 9% year-over-year -_ well ahead of the industry average. We met the requirements of our DIP covenants and expect to meet them for November as well."

UAL generated positive cash flow of about $206 million, excluding a quarterly retroactive wage payment to International Association of Machinists members of $63 million. UAL ended October with a cash balance of about $2.5 billion, which included $650 million in restricted cash (filing entities only). As part of its DIP financing agreements, UAL's lenders required the Company to achieve a cumulative EBITDAR (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, amortization and aircraft rent) of $46 million between December 1, 2002 and October 31, 2003.

"United employees once again delivered strong operational performance in spite of the challenges presented by the wildfires in California and the increase in load factor over last year," said Pete McDonald, executive vice president _ Operations. "Systemwide, 77 percent of United flights departed exactly on time. On-time arrivals within 14 minutes was 86.2 percent."

Separately, in response to a New York Times article from November 20, 2003, regarding pensions, Brace stated, "Some people are trying to confuse our situation. The facts are that we can fund our pension obligations on the standard, non-accelerated timetable; we intend to continue to fund our pension obligations; and we do not want to shift this burden to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) and the American taxpayer.

"The only issue we have is the significantly accelerated pension funding schedule currently mandated. United, along with many other companies, supports the efforts in Congress to modify this accelerated timeline and smooth out pension contributions in the short term. This would enable companies to protect the pension benefits of millions of American workers and retirees for the future. We are emphatically not seeking government aid or asking the government to take over our obligations."

 

[T-Bags]

Re: Funny thing about..

ASM vs CASM. Untied replaces some 757s with 150 seat 320s and they are adding ASM? It looks to me like they are reducing capacity in some markets. The only new route that UAL started with Ted is FLL.

We've been competing just fine against Untied main line, and Ted is just a low end version of that product.

My theory is that even a bad plan is better than no plan when trying for exit financing.

It will be interesting later on if UAL gets its ATSB loan guarntee, and exits BK protection (and I truly hope they do.) I wonder what their CASM will be?

Just my .02 and I'm just a pilot.

Andy,

Frontier goes everywhere Ted goes. Ted doesn't go everywhere Frontier goes. Untied does, but not nonstop from DEN, and has except FLL and all of our Mexico destinations.

The use of 'untied' is inappropriate. Doesn't help your credibility. Makes you sound like a whinny little imp who never got a call for an interview. speaking of low end products, did you guys finally park all the -200's? Have you started doing lightning strike checks? Any more mechanics arrested for intentionally destroying jet engines on the way out for TO?

 

[P3-Adub]

Ted 200 ?

TED to compete against Frontier and ??? You bet, where the heck did they and every other LCC get their start ? How much market did Frontier get when UAL made huge cut backs in DEN ? Frontier to grow ??? I would say TED is just going after what everyone else in this wonderful industry that we all call home. Heard that TED bookings were better than 200% of the expected. New paint, yeah, and 12 year captains making 140K vs north of 200K not all that long ago. Everyone is making less $$$ so the model is in place for TED to make a profit, if you cannot see that you are in denial. Fare wars, sure, look at Alaska into the DEN market, cheapest seats available, now who is making a market play ? Time to get a little share back if you ask me.

 

[General Lee]

As the economy gets better, the Majors will add back capacity--and that is NOT liked by the LCCs. They are trying to jump on market share when the majors are DOWN---but now they are coming back with lower costs and they have the airplanes in the desert---ready to come out. The LCCs are waiting for their new airplanes (like A318s and A320s)---and in the mean time the Majors can add back pilots and airplanes. There is a misconception that the Majors are still old and ancient---but most have dropped many jobs (Delta cut 16,000 total, and we are down 2500 pilots since pre-9-11), and made life easier for passengers (adding Kiosks for quicker check-in). It will be interesting.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[F9 Driver]

Gee T-bag I thought you had dried up and blown away, but I guess you are still spewing your drivell. You'd know from "inappropriate."

Http://www.untied.com/ is a funny site if it weren't so sad.

I noticed you changed your profile. I guess you want to seperate yourself from those fine men and women who kept your imp butt out of the fire in whatever unit you were assigned to. Good on you.

Yeha we parked all of the -200s. They were nasty looking, but still made us money while your new sparkling toys were loosing big $$ every minute.

I'm sorry I got sucked into your petty little tyrade. You must be a blast to fly with.

If you folks reading this click on t-bag's profile you can see the negitave bs he propagates every chance he gets. I think t-bag used to advertise that he was a UAL pilot too. Easier to say things unbecomming...

Hey p-3,
CAL pulled back and Frontier expanded. UAL huge cutback? And how is Ted's cost different than UAL's mainline?

 

[T-Bags]

F9,
I only get nasty to trolls who post slanderous remarks about airlines that have done way more for the industry than your "low cost" outfit. I still don't get the glee you showby being a 'low cost' leader when it comes completely in the form of you getting less pay. Good luck to you guys, I'm thinking you're gonna need it. as for "losing money", you are the what version of FRNT? you've been around how long? you had how many money losing years? You had to sue who to stay in business? You might want to check your history.

 

[F9 Driver]

Sorry I upset you t-bag.

I'll go "troll" elsewhere and let the numbers speak for themselves.

I think there is room for both UAL and F9 at DEN, and NEVER want to see a job lost on either side, but remember who started this current fight.

Check out the fares. Want Ted to match them?

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031218/lath035_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031218/lath034_1.html

Have a Dandy day

 

[satpak77]

lets not get pilot versus pilot in this argument

we all come from similar background, etc, lets play nice in the sandbox

what the CEO does with re-painting airplanes, buying/leasing more equipment, creating shuttle carriers within mainline carriers, etc, etc, is above our payscale

Merry X-Mas

 

[Andy]

I think there is room for both UAL and F9 at DEN, and NEVER want to see a job lost on either side, but remember who started this current fight.

F9 Driver, FRNT started this current fight by increasing ASMs immediately following 9/11 concurrent with UAL pulling down 20% of its schedule out of DEN. After UAL watched FRNT continue to expand, UAL increased flights out of DEN (I won't even get into FRNT stealing gates from UAL).
Up until 9/11, FRNT management knew that they existed by the benevolence of UAL; UAL had the power to put FRNT out of business in less than 12 months. Post-9/11, FRNT management saw an opportunity to expand, banking on UAL going chap 7. It didn't happen, and now FRNT will be facing the wrath of UAL.
FRNT III has been in business for 9 years. I don't expect them to make it 9 more.

As for room in DEN for both UAL and FRNT, that used to be the case. However, FRNT has taken the approach that they want to rapidly expand. This is going to be FRNT's death blow, because both UAL and a much larger FRNT cannot coexist in DEN.
Sep 2002, FRNT had 10% and UAL had 55% of DEN's traffic. In Sep 2003, FRNT had 13% and UAL had 51% of DEN's traffic. I am expecting UAL to take back market share plus extra.

Check out the fares. Want Ted to match them?

Yes, I want Ted to match them. Until FRNT goes out of business. Then UAL will raise them again.
However, you are assuming that Ted has to match those fares to put FRNT out of business. Ted doesn't have to match; Ted just has to steal enough traffic and keep yields depressed enough to drive FRNT out of business.
If you look at FRNT's 2Q 2004 (30 Oct 2003) results, you'll see that FRNT's net profit was 2.0 mil for the quarter. Ted would have to take no more than 1% of FRNT's load factor for FRNT to lose money. I expect UAL to go for 5% of FRNT's load factor.


F9 Driver, all of this is just my opinion from what I've seen in the past in this business. FRNT would not have any future difficulties with UAL had they not made an extremely aggressive market share grab after 9/11. Since then, FRNT management has been trying to rapidly expand FRNT. Had UAL gone out of business, it would have been a brilliant move by FRNT. However, UAL's still in business and getting stronger every day. And don't think for a moment that UAL management isn't going to want to settle the score.

 

[P3-Adub]

Andy,

UAL & TED are not "stealing" market share from FRNT, just retaking some. They do have some pretty cool ads and are moving to an all new fleet, unfortunately customers really just want cheap seats, departure and arrival time choices, and oh yeah, almost forgot, really usable frequent flyer miles.

F9,

I agree, hate to see any jobs lost, I believe FRNT and UAL will be around and compete in the good nature that they always have. As for how is TED any cheaper than UAL Mainline ? Does not have to be cheaper, the not so big secret anymore is UAL's costs are down across the board. Did you know that a 12 year 747-400 captain now makes 195K a year if he flys an average of 80 hours a month ? Not all that long ago that same pilot was making over 300K. None of this really matters though, according to a lot of folks, UAL will be struggling anyway. I personally don't think so however it is only my opinion. One thing is certain, the rapid expansion of all of the LCCs has and will continue to degrade the major airline pilot profession as far as pay is concerned from here on out. The only people now making a decent living will be the execs that show profits. Not being greedy, just stating a fact. Sure there are a lot of pilots that make the move from 20K a year commuter job and see 120K a year as "hitting the lottery". I don't. And believe me, I was not going to see the big bucks for a long time, be a bit longer now if ever. I hope that 120K a year down the road does not look like the dream job that a career at the MAJORS use to be. I think Frontier is a great company and I hope to see you guys last a long time, Denver is a terrific place to live. Honestly hope you guys don't have to go through what we have across the ramp.

Happy Holidays and Safe Flying !

 

[P3-Adub]

F9 Driver,

Almost forgot, you can't be all that bad a guy if your flew a Commander 680 ! Which model ? I really miss flying the Commanders, I really anjoyed the 690As and Bs as well as the 840. The 690B with the dash 10 conversion was a scream to fly !

Still, I think the Shrike was the most fun, can really appreciate what Mr. Hoover was doing, hate to see him put it out to pasture, hard act to follow.

Take care !