Ultralights and logging time

[Flying Illini]

Can you log flight time accumulated in an ultralight? If so, how?

 

[cougar6903]

no

 

[Gulfstreamlover]

Yes you can, you can't count it towards ratings like your private, but as I understand it you can log it PIC. I was thinking of buying one a long time ago for building mulit PIC time cheap and was told it is logable.

 

[avbug]

You were told wrong.

You can log time in a go-cart, if you wish...but there is no provision for use of logged time in an ultralight toward any pilot privilege, certificate, or rating issued by the FAA.

 

[Flying Illini]

thanks, I looked through the FARs and wasn't able to find any info on it so I figured you couldn't.

 

[bart]

Anybody have an opinion on logging time spent riding to altitude in a skydiving plane if you are sitting where there was a pilot seat?

I have already added a go-cart column to my logbook

 

[Gulfstreamlover]

You were told wrong.

but there is no provision for use of logged time in an ultralight toward any pilot privilege, certificate, or rating issued by the FAA.

Maybe that's why I said

"you can't count it towards ratings like your private"

P.S. Who where you talking to?

 

[RockyMnt1]

Logging time

Bart,

I think that you are treading close to a PFT issue there!!!

Be careful!!!

 

[bart]

RockyMnt,

No kidding, God help me if people found out I was paying for the seat...

 

[whatwasthat?]

I was told the A/C must have an N# to count as "real" time. The bottom line, I think, is what do you say to the DE, interviewer, FSDO, etc., when it comes up?

I've logged my ultralight time separately, then I figure in case anybody cares (which they don't, BTW) I've got it documented.

The only exception I can think of is that many of the ultralight associations have experience requirements for their own rating system.

 

[bart]

I would bet there are some guys on this board with C letters that would argue that and maybe some XAs too.

 

[Pilotadjuster]

Logging ultralight time

I'm not so sure it cannot be;

FAR part 1 definitions:

Aircraft means a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air.

Airplane means an engine-driven fixed wing aircraft heavier than air, that is supported in flight by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings.

Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpost of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing: or
(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.

This may become more important once sport pilot becomes a license classification. Sorry to disagree with Avbug on this one, but it seems as if an ultralight fits the definition of both aircraft and airplane.

Anyone find anything contradicting what I found?

 

[avbug]

FAA Order 8700.1, Volume 2, Chapter 1, page 1-46 and 1-47, paragraph 9.B. states:

“B. Logging Time. Unless the vehicle is type certificated as an aircraft in a category listed in FAR § 61.5(b)(1) or as an experimental aircraft, or otherwise holds an airworthiness certificate, flight time acquired in such a vehicle may not be used to meet requirements of FAR Part 61 for a certificate or rating or to meet the recency of experience requirements.”

In order for the flight time to be logable, the flight time must have been acquired in an aircraft that is identified as an aircraft category as listed in § 61.5(b)(1). This means that it fits into one of the four following categories:

(1) An aircraft of U.S. registry that has a civilian type designation and has a current standard, limited, or primary airworthiness certificate;

(2) An aircraft of U.S. registry that has a civilian type designation and has a current airworthiness certificate other than standard, limited, or primary;

(3) An aircraft of foreign registry that has a civilian type designation and is properly certificated by the country of registry; or

(4) A military aircraft under the direct operational control of an armed force of the United States.

Can you log flight time in an ultralight? Yes, you can log it in a hang glider,for that matter. It cannot be used toward any certificate, rating operating privilege, or recency of flight experience necessary for any airman certificate...but you can log it.

Logging ultralight time toward "building time" has the pronounced effect of making the person doing the logging look stupid. If that person attempts to attend an interview some day with ultralight time in the logbook, it will very well likely cost that person the interview right out of the gate.

One could push it and start logging time under canopy when skydiving or parachuting (or base jumping). Without arguement, a higher performance eliptical canopy takes quick reaction, good situational awareness, and a high degree of skill to fly and land. However, attempting to put this in a logbook applicable to an airman certificate is not only foolish, but looks foolish.

One can also log time spent watching aircraft fly overhead, hours in bed with a good woman, and numbers of flies killed on any given summer day while mucking out stalls in a stable. I wouldn't recommend it, however.

 

[Pilotadjuster]

got me...

I also log time spent reading posts on aviation websites....

Thinking about it, the definitions would also match hang gliders and powered parachutes.

Where do you find FAA orders? I was relying on what little I found on the subject in my FAR/AIM.

Thanks.

 

[Bluto]

Avbug,
Couldn't a person who built his own ultralight register it as an experimental aircraft and log usable (towards a rating/Currency, etc.) flight time in it? Not that I'd fly an ultralight (especially one I had built) as my life is somewhat valuable to me.

 

[Pilotadjuster]

Doc

Never mind. Found the question posed by someone else in Doc's FAR forum and he quoted the 8700 posting as well.

Can you even register an ultralight?

 

[whatwasthat?]

One can get an experimental registration for an ultralight. It has been done, however there's not really any operational advantage to it. Not to mention you'd then need a license to fly it and have to maintain it IAW the FAR.
You can already give dual instruction as well as be towed aloft although the FAA as expressed a desire to eliminate the waivers that permit this. The Sport Pilot deal is a step in that direction.
There are alot of illegal ultralights flying around and they know it, however enforcement is practically impossible as most people fly from their backyard or the like.
The problem is the multi-engine retracts, 1000 lb. trikes, turbo-charged towplanes, etc. that people fly around ostensibly as ultralight A/C.
BTW, hang gliders, powered parachutes, powered paragliders, some gyroplanes and even some helicopters fall under part 103.

 

[kybur]

Ultralights

You can not get an unrestricted experimental type certificate for your ultralight unless you actually built more than 50 percent of it.

If you just bought a pre-fab quicksilver, and put it together, you would not meet that qualification. However, the FAA will issue experimental certificates with the restriction "For Exhibition Only" (I think that is what its called). You get an N-Number for your ultralight, but you can only fly airport to airport with special permission from the FSDO.

So, you could build time this way, provided you only use one airport. Sounds kinda boring. Checkout the FAA's Advisory Circular 103-7

Here's a reference to the EAA's page about this:
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebui...erimental-Amateur Built - How to Convert.html